Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

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Schilly
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Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:03 am

We live in a village with neighbours on two sides. These are traditionally built houses. Our courtyard drainage runs under the neighbours property into the main sewer.

After the house was purchased recently the new owner has demolished the property and is rebuilding it. The drain did not seem to be a problem for them to start, and they were going to reconnect it to the sewer, but they have now told us that they intend to block the drain off.
This will flood our courtyard and house and potentially affect other neighbours as well.

Can they just do this legally? Any advice would be appreciated.

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Trooperman
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Trooperman » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:55 pm

You need to see a lawyer....and one that's not related to your neighbours!
nil illegitimum carborundum

katy
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby katy » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:16 pm

See your Ayuntamiento first. I tried to stop my neighbour linking into our pipes. Someone called from Ayuntamiento to say we couldn't do that. Although my neighbour was a Spanish Lawyer! Perhaps they make it up as they go along :mrgreen:

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby BENIDORM » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:49 pm

Hello Schilly,
I would suggest...
1...Ask the offending neighbour and your other neighbours who could be affected round for a glass of wine and ask them if they could assist you with the problem and try to explain to them the problems that it could cause.
2...If no joy contact your town hall and ask for their assistance, again explaining the possible problems.
3...Request your solicitor to intervene and possibly issue a 'denuncia'...but this is when it starts to cost you money....!!

And that is the best advice I can offer...Good Luck !

Schilly
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:45 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies......
We have just been told that we don't have a leg to stand on legally. Unless there is something written into your escritura to say where the drains run we cannot do anything.... and is all down to co-operation between neighbours. Our escritura is 10 years old, when it wasn't law, that drains have to be within your own ground and connect to the sewer from there. The fact that these are old houses and they have been this way for many years now stands for nothing.

Ayuntamiento are only interested in the main sewer pipes in the road and the connections to them.

Trying to explain to the neighbour that not only we would flood, but the other 90 year old lady on the other boundary wall would also flood, got us nowhere. He basically said it's not his problem. Lovely chap!!! Best of it is it only cuts across his driveway - not under his house.
So we are stuffed....and trying to find a way (that will mean digging up our house floors) to find a pipe to go into.
Heartbreaking and expense that we can ill afford!
Appreciate the help from you which were all perfectly logical ideas in my book.

katy
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby katy » Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:56 pm

Can't you find a way to dig down and direct the flow back on his land 8)

Schilly
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:32 pm

Ohhhh....great idea if it wasn't all concrete. This is a lovely village and the community are trying to maintain their traditional way of life. We love that!
Unfortunately this is a young Spanish guy who has no idea about community and neighbours ...and doesn't care who he hurts - even elderly Spanish locals. Very sad to think that modern Spanish life is going to turn it all on it's head!

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby gavilan » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:38 pm

?does the 90 yeaar old lady have any relatives nearby who might lean on offending neighbour?

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby maureenscot » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:07 pm

Round for a glass of wine with potentially affected neighbours - good idea.
90 Year old's rellies leaning on him - also good idea.
Happened to me in my village in Italy. Heavy weight builders who were all related and doing some other work for me ' leaned'. Upshot was that I got to share his 'put' and they came with us (escorted) to Notary to get included on Scritura which I paid. Also paid one off backhander. Bought the children Chrissie presents, brought bottle of good Scotch on next visit. Invited them to al fresco lunch with the heavies. Good time had by all. Got invited to birthday party eventually. Got the heavies to fix leak in his roof. Pals now but took a couple of years. It was terrifying at the time as thought we would have to turn water off and abandon ship

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby scotty » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:35 pm

Why ? Why is he blocking the drain ? It was underground and not in his yard ? So what benefit is there for him to block it ?

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Nimrod » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:47 am

I imagine it's because he's spanish and because he can.

Schilly
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:14 am

The pipe for the drain was buried underground and after he demolished the old house, and started the rebuild, he dug it up. At the time there was no problem as he said he would put it back and make sure it was reconnected. Suddenly he announced he was just going to block it off and didn't want it on his land. We have checked (with a solicitor on our side) and he can legally do this....for all the reasons first mentioned.

We have spoken to all the neighbours and the relatives of the 90 year old lady. They were really helpful and said we could dig up through her house and put in a pipe. Very kind of them but don't think this is the best option as it still means it goes through someone else's land and we will likely again be at their mercy. We have made sure that everyone knows that it is all about him and we are doing our best to find a solution.
There is going to be a meeting with the architect and technico next week but don't hold out much hope for that.

We have weighed up the financial (and emotional) costs of niceties, bribes, etc and feel that if we can get connected into our own house (be it an internal sewer pipe) we could no longer be held to ransom. It's going to be a nightmare but at least would be sorted once and for all...we hope!!!

After 10 years you think you have experienced it all.....but was definitely wrong about that. Thanks for all the help and support.

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Trooperman » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:19 pm

What actually drains? You said it was "courtyard" drainage.....is it just rainwater? If so, is the quantity able to be drained into a soakaway?
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Schilly
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:51 pm

Our house was once part of a large Andalucian farmhouse with an internal courtyard located in a village. The different parts would have been used by different families and we have the central section with courtyard that has been sold off. The is no land/garden as such and this is why we are bordered by neighbours on all sides (excluding the front gate).
Yes it is generally rainwater and surplus from cleaning or plant watering. None of the neighbours have guttering so rainwater comes into the courtyard from all neighbouring roofs. It can be a lot and floods easily. Would be lovely to be able to collect it all but just not possible and so there has to be some drainage somewhere. The front entrance is uphill so not an option either.
As the law now stands drainage must go from your own property to the main sewer (unless there is some historical burden noted in the escritura). Our sewerage does but this was already there - it is only the courtyard drainage that is the problem and that went under the neighbouring property.

scotty
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby scotty » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:30 pm

Want me to supply some "Irish friends" to explain why he should not do this ?

BENIDORM
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby BENIDORM » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:01 am

Schilly,
You do seem you be taking a common sense approach to your problem and really the only thing that I could add, based on my own experiences, would be to try to avoid any conflict/vendettas with a neighbour,it's really a road to no-where.!
I have found that anything that is likely to raise my blood pressure is best avoided..!
Anyway...Good Luck,
Gordon

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby TorreDelAguila » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:11 am

If it's only rainwater/surface-water that needs shifting, there has to be a way of doing this without digging up your house. I would suggest you get someone in to look at the problem, and advise.
Chris

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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby ebbnflow » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:53 pm

I was a little unclear as to your setup with neighbours and surrounds. You say neighbours on two sides, what goes on the other two sides?

I ask as we had a very similar problem with a neighbour also digging up our drain pipe for rain water run off. We have neighbours on three sides and the remaining side is council land that leads down to a river bed. When we consulted with the town hall they suggested (as was hoped) that we could redirect the run off through our terrace wall onto the council land below. What we were not allowed to have was a closed pipe running straight out but rather a gutter leading to the wall. I assume this was to avoid any chance of sewage be sent the same way!

Many homes have their rain water going straight into streets etc. It really depends what you have access to. Failing that the idea of connecting to your sewage system seems logical, although I would incorporate a water trap or two to avoid odours!

Schilly
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Re: Neighbours Blocking off our Drains

Postby Schilly » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:51 pm

Thanks...yes we are in a similar position. It is three sides that we have neighbours on and the other narrow front goes onto public land but this has quite an uphill slope. There is also no mains sewer there and so we would have to go much further to the main roads to find that. For the same reason the rain water could not run into the street as that is up rather than down.
We now realise that almost certainly we will have to connect into the internal sewerage within the house. Funny enough we were just discussing the odour issues and intend to put a u-bend/trap to deal with this.Thanks a lot for your response...very comforting to know we are not alone in the problem.


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