How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
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st3v3y
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How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby st3v3y » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:34 pm

If I become resident in Spain (a few years before I'll get to the 183 days I think) how do they take into account any gambling profits that I make in the UK? HMRC do not even want a self-assessment form as the profits are not taxable. I'll be speaking with an accountant when the time comes but just wondered if anyone had any experience of this?

Steve
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ajtg1952
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby ajtg1952 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:03 pm

A friend of my, now tax resistant in Spain, has just been served with a bill for €8,000 on profits made from gambling online in the UK. He has not been told how they acquired this information. It apparently does not take into account his losses. His accountant is currently trying to negotiate a deal. The moral of this story is beware; the Spanish tax authorities are sharpening up; at last.

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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby gerryh » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:06 pm

ajtg1952 wrote: now tax resistant in Spain,

Don't you just love predictive text/ auto correct facilities. :thumbdown:
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st3v3y
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby st3v3y » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:27 pm

The losses are the exact reason (in the UK) that HMRC stay well away from the subject. They lost a case in the courts in the 50's I think and they even have a section on their site dealing with this subject.

From your answer, it seems logical to assume that the Spanish tax authorities tax this profit as income then. It seems unlikely that I'll make the effort to reach 183 days if that's the case. Shame really. Moving on from that, it is a concern that the Spanish authorities have access to online betting accounts but I'd be surprised if that was the case. I know HMRC can see all balances in all accounts that you have, at least UK ones anyway, but wasn't aware that this kind of information was shared. Perhaps the authorities have seen an income stream from a betting account?

I understand that gambling profits in Spain are taxed and that losses are not considered so that bit makes sense but you can't place bets from Spain onto betting exchanges (Betfair, Betdaq/Ladbrokes exchange) unless you use a proxy so this must have happened using UK funds. And if these bets were placed on UK betting accounts with the money transferred from a UK account then I do not see how they could see any of that unless the growth in assets was recorded on the tax declaration.

Finally, as I fear this may be boring people, the reason I have only mentioned betting exchanges is because if you possess the necessary skills to trade online (unless it is casino, poker etc) then sports exchanges are the only places that will accept your business. Start making a consistent profit on any standard bookmaker and it won't take long before they remove you as a customer or severely restrict your account.

It would be great if you could keep me posted on your friends outcome.
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st3v3y
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby st3v3y » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:29 pm

gerryh wrote:
ajtg1952 wrote: now tax resistant in Spain,

Don't you just love predictive text/ auto correct facilities. :thumbdown:
Cheers
Gerry


I missed it twice Gerry but that may well become my goto phrase :thumbup:
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby Superplonk » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:30 pm

The Spanish rules are a mess. I read of a woman who was facing a tax bill on her million euros of gambling earnings. Hacienda will not take into account the 999,000 euros of losses that she made in the same period.

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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby st3v3y » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:21 am

Total mess! Fair enough if they treated it like a business and taxed profits. HMRC stay well clear because as everyone knows, most people lose more than they win and there is no way they want to get involved with offsetting losses. Thanks for the info.
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby patricia » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Wish I could answer that one
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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby ashtondav » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:36 pm

Same in Spain with capital gains. No losses are allowable against gains.

I'll stay well away from 180 days, and remain in a low tax economy like the U.K.

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Re: How does Spain deal with UK (tax free) gambling profits?

Postby patricia » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:00 pm

Couldbn agree more. I had to take my flat off the market or face a bill of 45k sterling to the hacienda! :thumbdown:
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