Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

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concorde
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Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:06 pm

Got a call from Spain tonight and a buyer has bought our house and given a deposit.
Our Spanish friend is helping as this was a private sale, it looks like it will be done and dusted in a couple of weeks , so I'm panicking.

The gestoria has our escritura and I think he has most of the things he needs, however am trying to gather together as much paperwork as I think he may need something thats not with him.

IBI paid up to date for this year.
Taking over copy of paid 210, this was paid this April for 2015, but what happens next year when we aren't there and need to pay 2016 tax?
I always do our 210's on-line, and pay at the bank as I do not have a digital signature, so how can I fill that in, do I get one at the gestorias office and put in the CGT at the same time?

Certainly no capital gains tax to be paid and will have to claim back 3%.
Will our gestoria claim that back for us? We will not be able to pop back over to send/give it to the tax office for a claim .

Ive been gathering information on this site for over a year for this very day and Im still panicking. :(

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:22 pm

I don't know of anyone who has paid the non-resident tax for the year in which they sold. The tax for this year does not fall due until the 31st December 2017 so you will not need to present the 2016 tax return in order to reclaim your retention which should have been repaid to you by then. You will, however, need to have been paying your non resident taxes for at least the past five years or since you bought the property if it was within the past five years.

You will need to confirm with your gestor that he/she is going to reclaim the retention. Some will do it as a matter of course whilst others will just do what you ask them to do and no more.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Enrique » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:32 pm

Hi concorde,
Don't panic............... :D
If you don't get it all wrapped up when you come over give power of attorney to your Legal rep for the sale of the property.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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concorde
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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:43 pm

Yes, thanks to this forum I have managed to pay all my non-resident taxes, and always as soon as possible hence this April for last year.
How can I pay this years though in 2017?

i don't think the gestoria has had many dealings with selling non-resident property. This is a predominantly spanish inhabited village.

Enrique, panicking is what I'm best at!

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:21 pm

I really wouldn't worry about not paying this year's non-resident taxes.

Unless the property has been subject of an obra nueva or an inheritance since your purchase the submission of your capital gains tax return really should present no problem. It is done on form 210 (the same as the annual non-resident taxes) and just needs a couple of different sections to be completed.

Have you read my FAQ on the subject:

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27591

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:04 am

Thanks for reply, sore eyes and sore head as I've been on computer/iPad for over 9 hrs, searching through various articles.
Just been reading your posts re form 211 over 3 yrs ago.
I had read the article you'd linked and kept it for this very time.

When you say don't worry about this years tax, it that because it will be deducted from the retention refund, as I assume it won't be paid any time soon?

Sorry if I'm not very coherent, just like to get things right.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:42 pm

Just thinking about 210 form for capital gains tax, I was hoping to fill it in when in we were in the U.K.
However I always filled ours in and printed it off, then took it to our bank in Spain to pay.
Just realised that as we are not going to be going over there again, how can I send it.
I do not have an electronic signature and it is far too late to even try and get one.
Also who would send me a copy of the 211?

Why did I think this would be straightforward?

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:41 pm

The purchaser should send you the receipted for 211 to show the retention has been paid. The completed form 210 in respect of the capital gains tax must be presented at the tax office if you are claiming a refund. It would not be advisable to send it in the post.

As I said before, your retention should be repaid long before the final due date for the payment of 2016 non-resident tax return on 31st December 2017 so will not be affected by its non payment. They are hardly going to chase you in the UK for a couple of hundred euros so unless you have a conscience, have another property in Spain or are thinking that you may purchase in Spain again the payment of the 2016 tax should be of no concern.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:01 pm

Tried to reply three times but it didn't make sense , so, I just need the ref, no from paid receipt 211, to fill in 210 for refund of retention.
Back to the 210 form, it states in their instructions that for H section that a single tax return form can be filed by joint owners?
Rather confused here, as I'm so used to doing one each for us

Not to worried about 2016 tax, if you saw the amount I have to pay, it's hardly worth sending in.

Is it really necessary to even bother filing a 210 for c.g.t,,
What would happen if I didn't? The taxman could keep my retention, and I wouldn't have to keep Spanish bank account open , with their costs, for who knows for how long, for to be quite honest the amount claimed back isn't a fortune.
Certainly not worth sleepless nights!

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:18 pm

A single return for the reclaim of the retention can be submitted provided that the joint owners are a married couple. In all other cases separate returns must be submitted. As well as a copy of the form 211 you need to enter the details of the purchaser but these will be shown on the form 211.

If you do not submit a return then obviously your retention will not be refunded. To tie things up you should really submit a CGT return but it is because many people do not that they introduced the retention. It is not necessary to keep a Spanish bank account open for the refund of the retention. There is a facility on the form to provided details of an account in a foreign country.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:02 am

Thanks for that, I assume that if the UK. Bank account is specified then it will be returned in sterling at the current rate of exchange.
Also when filling in the 210 what exactly do I fill in, besides section H.
I've looked at lots of things to offset this, not that it really matters in our case but have read it is very important to add the property tax when we bought. since our originals are with our Spanish friend, I can't remember what we kept.

10 years ago the buying process seemed rather lackadaisical by some estate agents desperate for business and we were very ignorant, considering we had bought and sold plenty of properties in the U.K.
I'm more concerned about adding to the selling price to help with the huge disparity between buying and selling.

I did find a good example of the calculation somewhere on my early hours trawl, and still looking in my history to see if it is there.. What everyone seems to reiterate is that it must be perfectly done or it will not be accepted, and so add to further delays.

Is it possible for the buyer on the day of exchange to file the 211/3% retention at the local tax office, be given the receipt and then give us a copy. That would certainly help us and speed things up.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Miro » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:08 am

Not wanting to hijack Concorde's thread, but since it's in the same vein, I hope nobody will mind. I've been wondering - if, as a fiscal resident, I were to sell my primary residence this year, and move to the UK and purchase a property there as my primary residence - having been a fiscal resident this year I expect to have to still file my IRPF next year for 2016 - but would I also be obliged to file a new 720 showing the UK property as an overseas asset owned during 2016 too?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby El Cid » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:28 am

Form 720 applies to assets owned on the 31st December, not at any particular time during the year.

Sid

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Miro » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:35 am

I know that - but if I bought a property in the UK this year, I think it's fair to assume I would own it on December 31st 2016. So my question is, would I have to file a new 720 before April 2017 detailing the UK property, simply because I moved some assets around, even though I'd no longer be in Spain, or be a fiscal resident in 2017? I presume technically the answer is "yes", but would it really be worth the bother?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:28 pm

Concorde, you can add the transfer tax to the purchase price (and plus valía if you paid it) as well as any other expenses for which you have a proper invoice including estate agent and lawyer's fees. You may be asked to produce these when the CGT return is presented. I assume there was no obra nueva or inheritance during your period of ownership. You can also deduct expenses on sale from the sale price. You can also apply certain coefficients if you bought prior to 1996.

The amount of the retention is paid in a bank not at an AEAT office. The purchaser has a month in which to make this payment but there is nothing to stop him doing it the same day if you can persuade him to do so.

You need to complete the form 210 in just the same way as if you were paying non-resident tax. In fact, if you have saved your non-resident formulario you can import this then just change the details accordingly.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:28 pm

Got it thanks, brain still scrambled!

Ours is a very simple sale, nothing outstanding,

Dug out copy of tax form from last year and now I see where box 2 needs to be changed.
When entering figures for section H, does it calculate automatically?

I will ask if the Retention can be sorted out on the day, does the 3% go into the buyers bank?

I had read that the tax office may ask to see the receipts, not sure how I can do that apart from clipping then to the completed return?

If I had been able to do that electronically, how would that work anyway. I guess that most sellers use a legal representative would have all those receipts and do them from Spain.

All this at the moment is hypothetical as if it proves difficult to get the 210 to the tax office, we may not bother.

From what I've read, other than electronically sent forms, paper versions could languish in some forgotten corner of an office!

However all this info may help others .

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:00 pm

Yes, the tax office will want the receipts. If you presented it electronically there is a facility to send attachments.

The option you need on the form is 28 from the drop down list. The figures are not calculated automatically although you will get an error message if they are not correct.

Declarations presented on paper will be acted upon but if there is any error on the form they will not contact you. They will wait until you contact them to find out why you have not received the refund. With a correctly presented declaration the refund should be made within six months of it being presented.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:21 pm

Thanks again, looks like it is virtually impossible to sort this out from the U.K. unless we have the electronic key.

I wonder if a U.K. based firm could do it for us, but depending on cost it might not make this worthwhile.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:39 pm

If you use a UK based lawyer he will just hand it over to a Spanish one and you will be paying twice.

One thing I forgot to mention when producing the documentation is that you also have to include the original purchase escritura and the current sale escritura.

Also you obviously submit copies of everything not the originals. If they are in any doubt about anything they will ask to see the original.

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Re: Sold house tonight, getting in a tizz!

Postby concorde » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:36 pm

Yep, it just gets better!

I've lost enough sleep about this and have decided to just see how this pans out.
Plenty time to make decisions after the sale goes through.


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