Plus Valia

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
Canela
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:23 pm

Plus Valia

Postby Canela » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:32 pm

Hi,
I`m trying to sell my house and would like to know how much the Plus Valia could be. I`ve owned it for about 40 years so it could be quite a lot.
Does anyone know if I can some how get an estimate on line?
Thanks for any help.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:46 pm

Try this link

http://www.foro-ciudad.com/plusvalia-municipal.php

Don't forget to put in the Suelo figure in, not the full Valor Catastral figure.

Hope this helps, if stuck, there are posts about this.

Canela
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Canela » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Hi Concorde,
Thanks very much. Just surprised that it was much less than I expected and seems to go back for 20 years only. Thought the longer you owned the property, the more you have to pay.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:17 pm

Hi Canela,
Would the calculator not let you put in the date you bought your property?
Can't see the town hall not getting their money's worth!
Maybe another member will be along with more info.

We'd had ours 10yrs and the calculator was spot on with what we had to pay.

Canela
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Canela » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:52 pm

Hi Concorde
I put the date I bought the property . I googled to get more information and on one site it said that you only have to pay for 20 years. Very pleasantly surprised if that`s correct.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:43 am

Hi Canela, l hope that info is right, great if it is, however I would get more info.

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2727
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: Plus Valia

Postby olive » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:09 am

Interesting article here about Plus valia in Sur

http://www.surinenglish.com/local/20170 ... 725-v.html

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:33 pm

I have always understood that Plus Vália is payable by the seller, unless there is an agreement between the buyer and seller saying otherwise. That is borne out here: http://iabogado.com/guia-legal/los-impu ... 0600000000 under the part "Los sujetos pasivos del impuesto". But the part that surprised me is this: "en los casos en los que el que transmite a título oneroso el bien o el derecho real es una persona sin residencia en España, el obligado a pagar el impuesto será siempre el adquirente". So, if I understand that correctly, when the seller is non-resident in Spain, the Plus Vália is always payable by the buyer. Has anyone else heard this before? If it's true, how many non-residents have paid Plus Vália who didn't need to?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:52 pm

I have been to our local town hall this morning and they confirmed to me when asked, that when non-resident property owners in Spain sell, the Plus Valia is always payable by the buyer.
This was a big surprise to me. Am I the only one?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:16 pm

We paid ours when we sold in December, thinking about it when we bought 10 yrs ago from non-res, we paid theirs!

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:53 pm

Ooops!
We paid the plus valia when we bought our place that we're selling now - but we bought from the developer and were lead to believe that was normal. Now, our buyer prepared our private contract, and to our surprise, included in the "gastos" clause that she wold pay all the fees and taxes, including the plus valia. We didn't argue (we didn't actually mention it!) Now, of course, she's trying to say we have to pay it (we're talking nearly €3,000) because that's what the notary has told her. She didn't show the notary the contract that both parties have signed though. Interestingly, the notary told her that if we're non-residents she has to retain 3%, but they didn't tell her that if we're non-residents, she has to pay the plus valia. Anyway, we're residents, so there'll be no 3% retention, but we're now going to have to argue about the plus valia, because it seems that she doesn't want to honour the contract that she produced as a fait acompli. Should we have to pay for her mistake?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6655
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Plus Valia

Postby peteroldracer » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:40 pm

Looks like there is some (understandable) confusion with the two sorts of plus valia: as I understand it, supported by what happened with our recent sale, as seller we pay the plus valia municipal, the tax on the perceived increase in value of the land, this set and payable to the town hall, and would have had to pay the plus valia on the increased value of the buildings etc, payable to the Hacienda, except as tax-resident pensioners selling our main residence are exempt.
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:56 pm

No confusion here. Plus Valia is the (unofficial) name given to "El impuesto sobre el incremento de valor de los terrenos de naturaleza urbana", which is levied by the town hall on the (perceived) increase in the value of the land (valor catastral suelo) since the property last changed hands.
Capital Gains Tax, or impuesto de ganancias patrimonios, is charged by Hacienda (the tax office) on the difference between the actual buying and selling price of the property - but I have never heard this referred to as Plus Valia.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:12 pm

I've just had a lengthy chat with someone from Blevins Franks, and among other things I mentioned this issue of plus valia, and it being payable by the buyer, if the seller is non-resident in Spain. He was as surprised as I was, but I asked at our local notary the other day, and they confirmed this to be the case too.
Has nobody got anything to say on this? I'm surprised it's not been commented on at all really. I'm now trying to calculate whether we'd actually be better off selling as non-residents, in order to definitely not pay the plus valia - even if this means we'd then pay CGT instead. Still wondering if we could still claim exemption from CGT because the property we sold was previously our primary residence.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:56 am

I have now had a detailed and very helpful reply from someone else at BF, and on the question of the buyer paying the plus valia when the seller is (fiscally) non-resident in Spain, they said:

"This is correct, following what it is established in the law regulating this issue. I have included below the text in Spanish for your reference:

Real Decreto Legislativo 2/2004, de 5 de marzo, por el que se aprueba el texto refundido de la Ley Reguladora de las Haciendas Locales

Impuesto sobre el Incremento de Valor de los Terrenos de Naturaleza Urbana

Artículo 106 Sujetos pasivos

1. Es sujeto pasivo del impuesto a título de contribuyente:

a) En las transmisiones de terrenos o en la constitución o transmisión de derechos reales de goce limitativos del dominio a título lucrativo, la persona física o jurídica, o la entidad a que se refiere el artículo 35.4 de la Ley 58/2003, de 17 de diciembre, General Tributaria, que adquiera el terreno o a cuyo favor se constituya o transmita el derecho real de que se trate.

b) En las transmisiones de terrenos o en la constitución o transmisión de derechos reales de goce limitativos del dominio a título oneroso, la persona física o jurídica, o la entidad a que se refiere el artículo 35.4 de la Ley 58/2003, de 17 de diciembre, General Tributaria, que transmita el terreno, o que constituya o transmita el derecho real de que se trate.


2. En los supuestos a que se refiere el párrafo b) del apartado anterior, tendrá la consideración de sujeto pasivo sustituto del contribuyente, la persona física o jurídica, o la entidad a que se refiere el artículo 35.4 de la Ley 58/2003, de 17 de diciembre, General Tributaria, que adquiera el terreno o a cuyo favor se constituya o transmita el derecho real de que se trate, cuando el contribuyente sea una persona física no residente en España."


So that pretty much confirms it. I hope this info is useful to any non-resident sellers out there!
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:25 pm

Hope this valuable info helps with your on-going sale, too late for us, and with not hearing lately about our retention being submitted is just the icing on the cake.

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:40 pm

Did you not get a copy of the modelo 211 showing that the buyer had submitted the 3% retention to Hacienda within the 30 day deadline?
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

User avatar
concorde
Resident
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Plus Valia

Postby concorde » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:54 pm

Yep, got that, believe me he has everything, and I mean everything that is needed.
Apparently all is in hand and I'm not to worry.

How many times have we heard that phrase/platitude?
Anyway I've got a straw hat somewhere which I will willingly eat, if it all turns out o.k!

Patience is a virtue, there's another saying!!

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:27 pm

Well, my love affair with Spanish officialdom continues to blossom. Did I mention before that I also asked in the notary's office about plus valia, and the lovely lady there had also confirmed that when the seller is non-resident, the buyer pays it? Well, today I was back there asking about something else, but mentioned this "fact" again, and the same lovely lady acted all confused and surprised, saying "oh no, the seller always pays the plus valia". Same person, different day - different info. :evil:
So after much discussion, and me showing her the quoted text from AEAT as per my previous post here, she said, "oh, what that means is that the buyer has to retain the amount of the plus valia and pay it on behalf of the non-resident seller - rather like the 3% retention against CGT. Well, that actually does makes more sense, and my gestor later confirmed that to be the case. However, he did say that since we have a legally binding contract stating that she will pay the plus valia, then that will go down on the escritura, and the town hall will assume she has retained the money, and if it's not paid, will go after her, not us. So, all's well that ends well. I will now pop over to the thread on CGT & Residency to explain (if I can) why we're going down the non-resident route.... :crazy:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3306
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Plus Valia

Postby Miro » Thu May 04, 2017 3:24 pm

Latest update: we went today with our buyer to the notary to set up an appointment for signing and to hand over all the necessary documentation. Our buyer was still convinced that there was "some tax or other" that we had to pay in order for her to be able to register the property in her name. I asked outright if she was still talking about the plus valia, because (as I'd told her before) she signed a contract saying she would pay it. Still not sure whether she was trying to pull a fast one and wriggle out of her mistake (she prepared the contract, not us) I was quite surprised when she said that she knew she was paying it, as per our contract. She just said it would be better if we spoke to the notary, as he could explain to us whatever he'd told her. Of course, it was the plus valia he'd referred to, and I still suspected she was hoping the notary wold tell us we have to pay it, but the moment we said we had an agreement that she'd pay it, and furthermore she agreed that was the case too, he said fine, and that's how it's going down on the escritura. End of that part of the story! :thumbup:
I'll pop over to "Leaving Andalucia" at http://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=36739&start=40 for the next bit, because it's not to do with plus valia....
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.


Return to “You & the Law in Spain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests