Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby elusive » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:00 pm

Incidentally, do you have a certificate that proves you are tax resident?
--------
030 is it? I"ll have to check the number of it There was one i had to fill out when buying our car. It put me on the system so to speak

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby Miro » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:12 pm

I'm not sure who Sid was asking. As far as I know, the only certificate that proves you are a tax resident (in Spain) is the one titled "Residencia Fiscal en España" which you have to apply to Hacienda for. To get one, you normally have to have filed a tax return in Spain.
To buy a car, I thought the only thing you needed was an NIE? (plus an address in Spain to register it, which may mean a padrón certificate, which may mean registering on the EU register first....!)
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby El Cid » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:22 pm

I was asking Elusive. Yes, you can get a certificate from Hacienda, but as you found, it isn't easy!

As for buying a car, they often insist on a Padron certificate.

Sid

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby elusive » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:23 pm

Yeah i hadnt heard of the form interms of buying a car but when the garage tried to registar the car it was refused unless i filled in this form. So i had to go to the local hacienda office and file it.

Had the padron and all the normal stuff.all depends on who was working that morning i guess

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby Miro » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:10 pm

Are you saying you had to "register" as a fiscal resident - just to buy a car? Not disputing it, if that's what you were told, but that's certainly a first for me. I know a couple of non-residents, occasional visitors to their holiday home, definitely NOT tax residents in Spain; they own a Spanish registered car, as do plenty of others like them, so why were you told you had to register as a fiscal resident, I wonder? Very strange.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby elusive » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:41 am

Yeah i agree miro. This was knocking on three years ago and as you say non residents can buy a car so i guess it just came down to who picked up the phone in the office. The garage people (safamotor) so not a one man band type were like err what? aswell so not something they expected.i file tax returns etc so not that it makes any difference just caused delay and hassle at the time.it was a brand new car so dont know if that makes any difference

User avatar
Enrique
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7722
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:47 am
Location: Camberley/Alcala La Real

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby Enrique » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:56 am

Hi,
The >90 day Registration, AKA "The Green Form" smoothed the sale of a car and purchase of another vehicle for Non-Resident in my area. Best 10.20€ I've spent in Spain.................. :D
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

DesWalker
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:45 pm

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby DesWalker » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:03 pm

So, when a pensioner applies for the >90day registration they either must demonstrate that they have initiated the form S1 transfer of healthcare from the UK or show they have private health insurance ? The reason I ask is that I am certain that the pensioner friends I mentioned earlier in the thread have done neither of these but have somehow managed to get the necessary documentation for discounted travel etc.

Enrique mentions the >90 day registration as being a good thing to do prior to buying a car and I would be interested to hear more.

Are there other benefits (beyond such a car purchase and beyond cheap public travel) that should be considered before weighing up whether I should apply for such registration (with the associated healthcare costs) bearing in mind that I have no intention whatsoever at present to go down the fiscal residency route. Many thanks for any thoughts.

User avatar
patricia
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2146
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: torrox Costa
Contact:

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby patricia » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:34 pm

El Cid wrote:It's easier to understand if you think about a "habitual residence". This is a property where you live most of the time. A non resident cannot have an Habitual Home in Spain without being a full time resident which means they would be a full tax resident.

So, no, non residents do not get the roll-over relief nor the over 65 complete exemption.

Sid


Do you get full exemption from capital gains if you sell a house in the UK but are tax resident in Spain.

Just wondering as I want to sell mine but my gestoria worked out the CG at some horrendous amount! so I put off selling it. :(
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"

User avatar
Enrique
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7722
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:47 am
Location: Camberley/Alcala La Real

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby Enrique » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:45 pm

Hi DesWalker,
As I pointed out the Rule is if you want to stay more >90 days in one hit you are required to Register.
When we did ours there was no mention of income or Healthcare.
The Green Form has your name , address , NIE and Parents names on it. So when purchasing a vehicle they will have NIE tied up with an address.
We file Non-Resident Form 210 annually and that is it........You will have an entry on AEAT DB and can track your payments with a Digital Signature or CL@ve PIN, you can register with DGT and keep an eye on any motoring infringements should they arrive.........perish the thought.......... :shock:

Once this is all set up its time to enjoy your visit.......be interesting to see what happens in two years time.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: frigiliana

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby elusive » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:07 pm

Des you said your friends registared many years ago 10 plus ? Things have changed quite abit since then so maybe they didnt have to show any type of healthcare to get it

Lyric
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 12:36 pm
Location: Torrox Campo

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby Lyric » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Eight years ago at Torre, no mention of health or income. Things have changed it seems.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby El Cid » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:55 pm

The EU directive was issued in 2004 and the resultant Spanish law cam into effect almost exactly 10 years ago.

Sadly, many of the relevant offices still seem to be struggling to understand it, hence the variety of different requirments that seem to exist, depending on where you register.

Sid

User avatar
gus
Resident
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:11 pm
Location: Bucks./Fuengirola (varies) :-)

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby gus » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:04 pm

CGT exemption is only available in the U.K. if it is your primary residence - not likely yo be the case if you are resident in Spain.
There are "allowances" available if the property was, at any time, your primary residence and further allowances during any period when it was rented out.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby El Cid » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:48 pm

patricia wrote:
Do you get full exemption from capital gains if you sell a house in the UK but are tax resident in Spain.


As Gus said, no you don't.

The two main exemptions (roll over and over 65) only apply to your "habitual residence"

Sid

User avatar
patricia
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2146
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: torrox Costa
Contact:

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby patricia » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:52 pm

That is what I thought. Just checking in case my Gestoria got it wrong! What do you mean roll over though! Do you mean if I buy another house which I intend to do or for your habitual residence! I shall have to relocate to the UK I think. I thought I might be able to get around it. Thanks for that.
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby El Cid » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:56 pm

To get the roll over relief you must have lived in your present house for 3 years for it to be classed as your habitual residence. If you sell it and buy another house (within 2 years) which will be your new home and reinvest the entire proceeds of the sale, then you can have an exemption. If you only reinvest part of the proceeds, CGT is payable pro rata.

If your existing home is in Spain, you get the same deal if you reinvest in the UK.

Sid

User avatar
patricia
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2146
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: torrox Costa
Contact:

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby patricia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:00 am

What if I relocate to the UK to sell my place there and then come back here an I stuck for three years before I can sell or am I exempt for being over 65!
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby El Cid » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:05 am

Yes, the deal does work the other way round, but you would have to live in the house in the UK for three years for it to qualify as your habitual residence. If you then moved to Spain and became tax resident, before you sold the UK house, then you would be liable for Spanish CGT on the sale of the UK house. If you then sold it and reinvested the money in a Spanish home, then the rollover relief would apply. However, it's unlikely many people would be in that position as they would probably sell the UK house before they became tax resident in Spain.

The over 65 rule also requires that the house you sell has been your habitual residence for 3 years.

In your case, where you are trying to avoid Spanish CGT on the sale of the UK house, it is going to be very complicated to get round it this way.

Sid

User avatar
patricia
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2146
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:56 pm
Location: torrox Costa
Contact:

Re: Capital Gains Tax & Residency

Postby patricia » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:23 am

Well the CG in the UK is nothing compared to the CG in Spain. The amount I would have to pay Spain in CG is huge! However just recently a politician sold his second home after living in it for a few months and didnt get charged CG, so I wonder if that has set a precedent! So if I moved back to Spain after selling my property I would have to start all over again with the three years living in Spain! Thanks for that Sid.
Torrox Costa "El mejor clima de Europa"


Return to “You & the Law in Spain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests