?illegal to dam a stream?

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gavilan
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?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:59 am

when I frst came here. nearly 20 years ago. there was a rough stone dam across the stream which diverted some of the water into the acequia but still allowed some through to keep the stream running ... there was a balance between the huerta needs and nature ... .... then, when they started planting avocado saplings, a couple of years ago, that rough stone dam was cemented over ... such that the stream became a dribble ... almost all water being diverted to irrigate said saplings ...

I have heard that such a cement dam is illegal ... does anyone know if this is true? ... I dont intend rushing up to the ayuntamiento and demanding that dam be removed ... that would just be asking for trouble! ... but I would be interested to know what the law says about such things ...

havent heard from wildside recently ... he might know?

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby wollie » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:41 am

I be surprised if it is not illegal but it seems the people know what they are at. If it were me i would likely approach the people who are diverting but if they own the property where this diversion is taking place this may not be an option.
It is likely mapped but i not know where these available in Spain, you may get an indication from google maps.

gavilan
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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:56 am

wollie wrote: ' if they own the property ' ... the 'property' in this instance is a stream ... ?can one 'own' a stream? ...

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby wollie » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:08 pm

What i mean is who owns the property either side of where this obstruction to the stream was installed.
My point was if a person had to enter other persons property to see obstruction it could be deemed as trespass.
In my opinion you cannot own or divert a stream, this is the kinda thing that really irks me and i be on it immediately.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:45 pm

interesting comment wollie ... I should explain more: running each side of the stream is an acequias and each has a path along side ... and from each acequia/path the dam is visible ... so no trespassing involved ... I actually found it by wading/scrambling/slipping/sliding up the stream (despie no real current now, there are still some deep pools!) ... cos I like to do such things ...

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby wollie » Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:51 pm

acequia/path... this suggests someone diverted the water through this channel and likely be legal.
The Spanish value water and in my view generally make best use of this resource.
If the water is being diverted away from this duct it may be different.
If its not affecting you personally it may be better to leave it.

gavilan
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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:52 am

'The Spanish value water and in my view generally make best use of this resource\. ... that used to be the case but that sense seems to have 'gone out of the window' with the planting of masses of water hungry avocado trees in this area ...

'If its not affecting you personally it may be better to leave it.' ... ?what about the plants and wildlife which are dependent on this water source?

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby Gasman » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:52 pm

Gavilan said - I dont intend rushing up to the ayuntamiento and demanding that dam be removed ... that would just be asking for trouble! ...

But can you not go to the Cadastral office of the town hall with a general enquiry about that bit of river and the water courses fed by it, and with mention of the natural outflow of the river downstream ... then ask gently about the recent concreting of it - do they know about it? Was a permit needed?? Do they approve??? All this should be within their remit and within yours as concerned neighbour, to ask.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:26 pm

that's a good comment Gasman but I would have to be very careful in how I phrased things ... there have been two instances (both a bit too close to home for my comfort!) where they offending party has taken or threatened revenge in the form of setting fire to the property of those who complained!

olive
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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby olive » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:02 pm

My two cents for what it is worth would be to let sleeping dogs lie. We are foreigners and always will be even if you integrate well and have lived here years. A positive outcome e.g. the removal of the dam at the perpetrators expense ,no doubt, will just create resentment and eternal suspicion.

If you want to pursue it then I suspect the correct authority would be Hidrographia ( we are covered by Granada office - yours might be Malaga) with a Photo and location on a map. Whether they would have the time and commitment to visit and sort it out is another matter. Around us there are dozens of new wells (some with licences) being drilled. Discreet solar panels being put up in olive groves to daily pump water out for buried irrigation pipes from wells that used to be only used maybe five times a year to draw 2 cubic metres at a time. You never know though.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:16 pm

olive: thanks for your comments ... I would be interested to know if those 'dozens of new wells' etc are a response to several dry winters recently (our last 3 have been very dry) and/or overplanting of avocado/mango orr similar fruit trees?

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby olive » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:32 pm

The irrigation is a simple improvement a farmer can make to , if done properly, double the yield year on year on their olive trees. The problem many find is the apparent abundant water mysteriously vanishes i.e. The aquifer starts to fail.

I have seen all those new mangoes and avacados down east of Malaga. Big problem. No water but who would put the brake on farming output ?

Incidentally the prolonged dry spell coupled with this unseasonally high heat is a disaster for everyone in our area. We had masses of flowers but most failed to set and then those that did are shrivelling up, blackening and falling off. Expect olive oil to go up again .

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:40 am

olive, you wrote : No water but who would put the brake on farming output ?... that 'farming output' has major implications for other farmers, which, in my opinion, should to be taken into account before undertaking major planting of water hungry fruit trees ... eg the streams around here are being denuded of water such that very little of fresh water reaches the coast these days ... so salt water is seeping into the coastal land which used to be fertile/productive but now is not. This frenxy of avocado/mango planting reminds me of the frenzied construction of houses/apartment blocks etc which went on around here a few years ago ... that turned out to be unsustainable ... neither will this 'farming output' be ... vamos a ver ...

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Wicksey
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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby Wicksey » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:25 pm

I agree we are also worried about the planting of many tens of thousands of mangoes around here. We were talking to our neighbour who said he was about to plant 200 on a small patch of previously 'dry' land and we said won't it take a lot of water. His answer was that mangoes need less than avocados, and a couple of mangoes will weigh a kilo and as the price was over a euro a kilo this year it's a good earner. Also, it's a quick harvest as they tend to all be ready to pick at once, so for a couple of weeks hard work he'll have the income much quicker.

I do wonder when all these trees start to produce fruit whether the price will fall ... providing the water doesn't run out in the meantime. It has been much hotter and drier here the last couple of years so it is a worry, especially as we rely on the agricultural water supply for our home.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:32 pm

I thought mangoes were as water hungry as avocados ... so i checked online ...

https://www.daf.qld.gov.au/plants/fruit ... or-mangoes

Mangoes are a deep-rooted crop and a mature tree needs a large volume of water. The amount of water depends on the size of the tree and the time of the year. An orchard's water requirements can exceed 6 ML/ha a year. At peak demand, from fruit set to harvest, a mature tree may need more than 2000 L per week.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby wollie » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:00 pm

i think if we just bought dried fruit be better? there is no water in these fruit...

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Wicksey
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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby Wicksey » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:54 am

gavilan wrote: a mature tree may need more than 2000 L per week.


Blimey ...... times that by how many have been planted and that's a bit scary. Trouble is, the mangoes are often planted on previously unused or dry land so that's an awful lot of extra water.

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Re: ?illegal to dam a stream?

Postby gavilan » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:24 am

that's a very good point Wicksey ... I hadnt taken into account the amount of water needed to get dry land into a usable/growable/fertile state ... I had overlooked the 'start-up' costs!


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