Padron renewed every 5 years

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
pensure1988
Resident
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: Estepona

Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby pensure1988 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:56 pm

Does anyone know how this works. I have been a Resident of Estepona since June 2008. I got some sort of letter dated stamped December 2014 asking me if I was still a Resident of Estepona. I duly sigend this letter with my Passport Number instead of my NIE and our Urbanisation Comunidad Manager returned all these signed letters back to the Town Hall. I have now discovered that as I apparently had not renewed my Padron,my status changed from Resident to Non-Resident.The Town Hall told me your Padron has to be renewed every 5 years. Is this correct. Can one apply to be a Permanet Resident of your City,Town or village in Spain. As a Result my IBI Bill increased by Euros 345.86 to Euros 456. 56 instead of the Plan de Pago amount of Euros 110.70. Hence no discount applied for the final payment for the year. Has any other Forum user had this happen to them as well.

Thank You

David

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby El Cid » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:10 pm

There is no legal requirement to renew your Padron, there used to be, but the law was changed to remove that requirement.

However, various local town halls have asked their residents to renew their Padron for reasons unclear.

Many town halls have illegally encouraged non residents to sign on he Padron to increase the payments they get from central government. The law says that you can only sign on the Padron if your permanent residence is in that town which clearly excludes owners of holiday homes.

What is odd about this recent requirement to renew your Padron is that it will tend to reduce the number of people on the Padron which is counter productive regarding the government payments.

Sid

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby Miro » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:21 am

It's possibly all about the IBI discounts that various town halls have been giving to full-time residents; probably a lot of property owners who were not residents, were also getting these discounts. Torremolinos required all "residents" who were previously receiving discounts (subvenciones) to re-register for them this year. The queues outside the town hall were unbelievable. The old system was based purely on how long you had been resident (on the padrón); the new system is based purely on your household income. Curiously, the maximum available discount under the new system is more than anyone would have got previously (70% for low income homes), so I can only assume that they have worked out that this will be outweighed by the number of higher earning households that previously received discounts, and which won't get any under the new system. The new registration system informs residents that tax returns & bank statements will be checked, so there's no need to actually declare your income. Apparently they have every legal right to access this information, unless you specifically request them not to - which doing so they say will probably affect your application! :wtf:

Just before we sold our place in May this year, a representative from the ayto. called at our building checking who was living there. We registered with them that we were still living there. However, the buyer of our place tried to register at the town hall, and was told she could not do so until they receive a letter from us stating that we are no longer living there - which seemed strange to me, since she has her escritura proving she now owns the property, and utility bills proving she lives there. I was loathe to provide a letter for her, since we had been forced to pay this year's IBI in full and wait to see if we'd get the subvención. I asked her to wait, but she kept hassling me for it, so in the end I gave in (she had after all paid the plus valia!) Unsurprisingly, some time later (a week or so ago actually) I received an e-mail from Torremolinos ayto. stating that we did not fulfill the requirements to receive a subvención. I can only assume that my letter stating that we no longer live there was the reason. It seems very unfair, since as the owners of the property on January 1st, we had to pay the whole year's IBI - surely we should at least be entitled to a discount pro-rata for the time we did live there? But now that I'm back in the UK, it's simply not worth fighting it. Even if we were still there, I'd become weary of fighting all the BS in Spain, which is why we're not still there!. I just put it down to the cost of getting out of Dodge.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

jhonie99
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:05 pm

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby jhonie99 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:07 pm

YES, there is a legal requirement to renew padron every 5 years.

They have been very clever in their approach and are stating that the order to renew has come from the Nationl Staistics Office in Madrid - in other words "we're just updating our statistics."

I've had to do it, here in Canarias. It goes like this.....

My resident discount travel padron doc was suspended without notice. On enquiring, I was informed that no letters are being sent out (from our townhall) as they never get any responses! By suspending resident discounts, people make an immediate appointment to renew.

It's claimed that foreigners never let them know when they leave so this is the only way to keep track of them.

If I hadn't renewed, I would have been removed from Padron after a period of 2 years.

Renewal was easy, but I went there armed with my Funcionario del Estado partner, just in case. I suspect that others might have to provide documentary evidence of their status.

The Spanish are very clever - nonchalantly collecting information to be used in the future. As I've said elsewhere the padron will be used in the future by Agencia Tributaria to "get" people.

Free at Last
Resident
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:32 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby Free at Last » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:28 pm

About 4 years ago we got a hand delivered letter from our Ayuntamiento asking us to renew our details on the padrón, which we did without problems. We have just updated our registration again because we have moved house, and we just had to provide the standard documentation, ie utility bill or escritura plus a photocopy, passport or "tarjeta de residencia" plus a photocopy. As our property is in my name I had to sign a form authorising my husband to register at our address, which I didn't have to do when we registered originally. The funcionario who dealt with us thought this was hilarious.

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2822
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby Wicksey » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:14 pm

Earlier this year we had two visits from an ayuntamiento employee searching for expats in the area as we live in the campo and he just had a name and Casa Blanca (for example) as an address.

Then we started getting phone calls from them for us to go to the office just to confirm we are still resident here, which we did. From memory he didn't ask to see anything other than for us to go and confirm we are still physically here. It seems that in Torrox they were going to a great deal of effort in calling out to homes and phoning in order to get people to renew their Padron register.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby El Cid » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:26 pm

jhonie99 wrote:YES, there is a legal requirement to renew padron every 5 years.


No, there is not. The law specifically excludes it. If you doubt that then read the law or this from the CAB

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-co ... NSUS-1.pdf

That said the various town halls who offer discounts to residents do try and get people to re-register periodically.

Yes, if you move, then you must register again.

The Padron is actually the official Spanish census, so if non residents sign on, it distorts all the figures. The law specifically states that you can only sign on if your "habitual" residence is in the locality. We have lived in our town now for 17 years and never once have been asked to reregister.

Sid

User avatar
White Horse
Resident
Posts: 1757
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: England

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby White Horse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Pensure, I hope that you have a certificate of permanent residence on a green form or card. If not, with the impending Brexit, what has happened with your town hall, that information might get passed up the chain of useless funcionarios, who might take you off the list of people holding a current "Certificado de registro como residente comunitario".
That could affect your status quite seriously if there is no Brexit agreement. I don't trust any of these civil servants in Spain to get it right.

Evelyn
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:36 am
Location: La Cala

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby Evelyn » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:09 pm

We had the same as FAL and were asked to take paperwork in about 4 years ago. I went to the town hall, the lady took all my paperwork, fiddled on her computer, said thank you. Job done. I asked if I had to go back the following year and she said "No, Cinco". I was quite surprised because my Padron was dated 2006!

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13464
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby El Cid » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:18 pm

White Horse wrote:Pensure, I hope that you have a certificate of permanent residence on a green form or card. If not, with the impending Brexit, what has happened with your town hall, that information might get passed up the chain of useless funcionarios, who might take you off the list of people holding a current "Certificado de registro como residente comunitario".
That could affect your status quite seriously if there is no Brexit agreement. I don't trust any of these civil servants in Spain to get it right.


I'm not sure I agree with you on that point White Horse. The Registro is controlled purely by the Policia Nacional and they could not care two hoots what these tiny town halls choose to do.

If the details of the Padron were passed up the line, then I am sure that Hacienda would immediately class all residents on the Padron as tax resident and chase them for many years of back taxes.

That has not happened (yet) but I would be very reluctant to sign on the Padron unless I was clearly a full time resident.

Signing on the Padron declares that your habitual residence is in Spain and that would automatically make you tax resident in Spain.

Sid

User avatar
White Horse
Resident
Posts: 1757
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: England

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby White Horse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:12 pm

Fair comments, Sid, however I would be very cautious of anyone in any official capacity declaring me a non-resident in the current volatile political climate. A permanent certificate which has the words, "como residente comunitario con carácter permanente en España" has to be worth its weight in gold.
Anyone with one - don't lose it!

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Re: Padron renewed every 5 years

Postby Miro » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:53 pm

Have to agree with White Horse. We had certificates of permanent residence when it all went pear shaped with our health cover a few years back, and also when we were refused certificates of fiscal residency by Hacienda - so I can only imagine the field day the authorities will have post-Brexit. Get your houses in order and hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride!!
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.


Return to “You & the Law in Spain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests