Renta 2017

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Renta 2017

Postby gerryh » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:04 pm

The online "Padre program" is now available online to do your tax returns for 2017.
Just done mine and my wife's tax returns.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Renta 2017

Postby AkoAko » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:28 pm

I thought the old Padre program had been replaced with Web Renta .

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: Renta 2017

Postby gerryh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:55 pm

is is now called Renta Web.
I said "Padre program" as that is what a lot of people are used to it being called.
As I stated it is now available for use.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3428
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: Renta 2017

Postby Wicksey » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:06 pm

I still can't get my digital signature to work. The site seems to say you can just use your tax reference and NIE?

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Renta 2017

Postby AkoAko » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:14 pm

gerryh wrote:is is now called Renta Web.
I said "Padre program" as that is what a lot of people are used to it being called.
As I stated it is now available for use.
Cheers
Gerry


Cheers Gerry , i would have waited a few weeks if you hadn't posted , can get ours done now .

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:30 pm

Wicksey wrote:I still can't get my digital signature to work. The site seems to say you can just use your tax reference and NIE?


Yes, you can get a reference number by giving your NIE and the contents of box 450 on your last declaration. Its very simple.

https://www2.agenciatributaria.gob.es/s ... btRef.html

Sid

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Renta 2017

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:05 pm

Clarification please....having missed the self-declaration date last year for 2016 return I am having to use a gestor :-(
She says that I should not have declared my OH’s income the previous year because her state pension is below the 12000€ threshold, whereas I did because she also gets a Crown pension, thus two sources of income, even though the latter is declared as exempt!
Secondly, my annuity income she says is taxed at 8%, as I am over 70, rather than taking the age when purchased (65, so 24% to be declared this taxed at 19.5%)
I walked out of two other gestors who wanted to declare everything as income, which would have cost me a fortune, despite both being recommended by other expats!
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Renta 2017

Postby AkoAko » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Quick question , which box for private pension and which box for UK state pension . Thanks in advance

Reasonably sure both are added together and shown in box treated as work related income .

Now i just need the rate to apply to GBP to Euro and i can get our returns submitted .

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:29 pm

Is the private pension an annuity?

Sid

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:35 pm

peteroldracer wrote:Clarification please....having missed the self-declaration date last year for 2016 return I am having to use a gestor :-(
She says that I should not have declared my OH’s income the previous year because her state pension is below the 12000€ threshold, whereas I did because she also gets a Crown pension, thus two sources of income, even though the latter is declared as exempt!
Secondly, my annuity income she says is taxed at 8%, as I am over 70, rather than taking the age when purchased (65, so 24% to be declared this taxed at 19.5%)
I walked out of two other gestors who wanted to declare everything as income, which would have cost me a fortune, despite both being recommended by other expats!


She is wrong. The Crown pensión now has to be declared as it will affect the tax on the state pension.

She is completely wrong about the annuity, the amount that is not taxable is based on the age that you started taking the annuity, not your age now.

Get another Gestor or go to the tax office and get them to do it. That said, they don’t understand annuities or UK Crown pensions either. Better still, do it yourself, it’s pretty easy and the new Renta Web system is very good.

Sid

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Renta 2017

Postby AkoAko » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:47 pm

El Cid wrote:Is the private pension an annuity?

Sid


Yes its a very small annuity paid to me monthly after receiving 25% of the pot tax free when i was 60 .

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Pensions, state or otherwise go in box 001 which covers all earned income.

Annuities are treated as savings income and go in box 027. I always enter the discounted amount which depends on the age you were when you started payments. You say you were 60 when you took the lump sum so you only declare 24% of the income. Details in the FAQ section.

Incidentally, it is important to take the lump sum before you become tax resident in Spain as unlike the UK it is taxable.

Sid

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Renta 2017

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:22 pm

“Get another Gestor or go to the tax office and get them to do it. That said, they don’t understand annuities or UK Crown pensions either. Better still, do it yourself, it’s pretty easy and the new Renta Web system is very good.”
Is there any way you could point me to the relevant information about purchased annuities, in Spanish, in the official instructions? It seems to me that everyone is incompetent when it comes to tax, and though I hate the idea I am thinking that I should just give up and pay whatever! It is my fault for missing the deadline, but the tax office said I could not submit a return and must use a gestor, so I am stuck. I checked out five gestors, and as soon as I mentioned a purchased annuity you could see the eyes glaze over whilst they tried to think of a line of waffle or lies to cover their ignorance.
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:40 pm

This is the best I can do Peter.

LEY 35/2006, DE 28 DE NOVIEMBRE, DEL IMPUES- TO SOBRE LA RENTA DE LAS PERSONAS FÍSICAS Y DE MODIFICACIÓN PARCIAL DE LAS LEYES DE LOS IMPUESTOS SOBRE SOCIEDADES, SOBRE LA REN- TA DE NO RESIDENTES Y SOBRE EL PATRIMONIO.

Articulo 25.3a

2.o) En el caso de rentas vitalicias inmediatas, que no hayan sido adquiridas por herencia, legado o cualquier otro título sucesorio, se considerará rendimiento de ca- pital mobiliario el resultado de aplicar a cada anualidad los porcentajes siguientes:
40 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga menos de 40 años.
35 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga entre 40 y 49 años.
28 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga entre 50 y 59 años.
24 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga entre 60 y 65 años.
20 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga más de 66 y 69 años.
8 por ciento, cuando el perceptor tenga más de 70 años.
Estos porcentajes serán los correspondientes a la edad del rentista en el momento de la constitución de la renta y permanecerán constantes durante toda su vigencia.

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Renta 2017

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:47 pm

That is great Sid, thanks. Is it safe to assume that these rules are national and the same in Murcia as Andalucia?
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

AkoAko
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Renta 2017

Postby AkoAko » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:55 pm

El Cid wrote:Pensions, state or otherwise go in box 001 which covers all earned income.

Annuities are treated as savings income and go in box 027. I always enter the discounted amount which depends on the age you were when you started payments. You say you were 60 when you took the lump sum so you only declare 24% of the income. Details in the FAQ section.

Incidentally, it is important to take the lump sum before you become tax resident in Spain as unlike the UK it is taxable.

Sid


I , trusted an Abligado and i dont think he declared it but the hasienda must have known from somewhere as they sent me a letter asking for the P60 for the current and the previous year , it was my only income and less than £500 , never heard any more . Stopped using the Abligado as he even got my name wrong the second year , no idea how he managed that , been doing my own for the last 2 years without a problem however thats using advice given here , wife and i are always well below the indevidual allowances so only ever get refunds to our bank account . The lump sum i didn't declare because i simply didnt know , it was abound £2400 with the monthly payments my total income for that year was still less then €3200 .

For some reason the details the hasienda have on my wife and i have changed online , were both shown as single this year , i had to link us and verify both to get the joint or individual annual calculations . Now they want the know the persentage of our home she owns which is Zero as its all in my name but the system wont acept 0 or 0% in the Primer declarante box and unless it does im stuck , cant even enter 100% in the Cónyuge box , its grayed out .

Im wondering if my wife would be treated as a tenant . These are the options ,

1
Housing, parking space, storage room or annex property of the declarant and / or his spouse
2
Housing of which the declarant and / or his spouse is usufructuary
3
Housing of which the declarant and / or his spouse is a tenant
4
Another situation

Aas i have shown 100% ownership that could be why it wont alow zero in wife's bx .

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:35 pm

peteroldracer wrote:That is great Sid, thanks. Is it safe to assume that these rules are national and the same in Murcia as Andalucia?


I am pretty sure that is a national rule. Regions can add various special allowances and can set their own tax rates, but I dont think they can take away the basic allowances.

Sid

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Renta 2017

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:29 am

Hopefully a final point, what was the official exchange rate for 2016 please? You give 2015 @ 1.3777 €/£, and 2017 @ 1.1413 but I cannot see the middle year.
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14675
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Renta 2017

Postby El Cid » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:56 am

For 2016 I used 1.2203€/£

Sid

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7116
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Renta 2017

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:09 am

I have read that the box for ‘exenta’ Crown pensions has changed this year from 470 to 480. Can any of you ‘early bird’ submitters confirm or contradict this, particularly if you have a Crown pension?
Despite extensive research I can find no explanation as to exactly why and how filling in this exempt income on the return changes the amount of tax payable, only that it does....to me, if it is exempt that means it should make no difference.
The saddest people are those that cannot laugh at themselves


Return to “You & the Law in Spain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests