Offshore bank accounts

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
Manchesteral
Resident
Posts: 1967
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Offshore bank accounts

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:07 pm

If any of you out there have offshore bank accounts, be cautious, My cousin who is a private investment banker and one of the smartest men I know has warned me that should a Brexit deal go the wrong way anyone living in Spain having offshore bank accounts could be subject to very severe and punitive investigations, just saying !

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby El Cid » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:30 pm

If you live in Spain you already have to declare all your worldwide assets over 50k, so I can’t see that Brexit makes the slightest difference.

Sid

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7774
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:24 pm

And if you don’t own up before 30th September the penalty is 100% of the taxes due rather than the present 30%.
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

User avatar
costakid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5754
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:55 am
Location: malaga este

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby costakid » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:36 am

More scaremongering. Expect lots off sponsored adverts from Blevin Franks offering expensive advise. Is it not always been pay your taxes or expect a big fine if and when you get caught?

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7774
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:45 am

Not scaremongering...the rules are changing. From gov.uk site “On 31 December 2015, all HMRC offshore facilities closed. Up to that date, HMRC gave incentives to encourage people to come forward and clear up their tax affairs.

That’s no longer the case, but before automatic exchange and new sanctions come into force, the Worldwide Disclosure Facility will be the final chance to come forward before we use CRS data and toughen our approach to offshore non-compliance.

The facility opened on 5 September 2016. After 30 September 2018, new sanctions under Requirement to Correct will be introduced that reflect HMRC’s toughening approach.

You can still make a disclosure after that date but the new terms will not be as good as those currently available.”
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

Pamela1
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:48 am

I wonder how many don't bother to declare everything they have got and get caught? Is every single person living in Spain scrutinised?

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby katy » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:48 am

There are many ways to get around this. Set up a company or a trust. Get professional advice.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby katy » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:52 am

Two currency companies have gone bust this past few weeks. Couple on TV lost £250,000.

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7774
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:31 am

https://www.costa-news.com/costa-blanca ... xing-times
Two meetings up here run by HMRC, well attended....
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

User avatar
costakid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5754
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:55 am
Location: malaga este

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby costakid » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:46 am

peteroldracer wrote:https://www.costa-news.com/costa-blanca ... xing-times
Two meetings up here run by HMRC, well attended....
So are you saying anyone who is UK resident but has a holiday home abroad and I guess an account in that country to run there home needs to notify HMRC? Thats a lot of work to look at all of those accounts for an already stretched HMRC. It take them 45 minutes to answer the phone for a normal VAT business enquiry.

Manchesteral
Resident
Posts: 1967
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby Manchesteral » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:20 am

El Cid wrote:If you live in Spain you already have to declare all your worldwide assets over 50k, so I can’t see that Brexit makes the slightest difference.

Sid
You are correct about the figure of 50k, this is apparently something brewing, I trust this man with most of my money and I certainly trust his judgement, if I or he learns more about it it will be passed on, this threat apparently will only apply to Brits !

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:48 am

Manchesteral wrote:If any of you out there have offshore bank accounts, be cautious, My cousin who is a private investment banker and one of the smartest men I know has warned me that should a Brexit deal go the wrong way anyone living in Spain having offshore bank accounts could be subject to very severe and punitive investigations, just saying !
I am a retired investment banker now running an investment firm specialising in tax efficient investments for private individuals.

There are many scaremongering stories going around about the impending information exchange laws which are getting confused with other matters.

In the UK it is not illegal to have and you do not have to report any bank account to HMRC (regardless of the location of that bank). If you are tax resident in the UK you do however have to report income made worldwide and of course having a bank account outside the UK is a way to collect your income from outside the UK.

The rules for Spanish tax residents worldwide income are exactly the same as the UK residents . Additionally you must report assets outside Spain, that meet a certain criteria, using Modelo 720. Bank accounts can fall into this criteria.

Matters of UK/Spanish tax relations are dealt with under a double taxation treaty The UK has I would guess over 100 double taxation treaties including with Mauritius and Bangladesh for example. They are negotiated directly between the two countries and in no way linked to to the EU.

Information sharing about bank accounts is already taking place on a global scale starting since 2017 referred to as common reporting standards.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Reporting_Standard

At present over 100 countries (and growing monthly) exchange information, it is in no way linked to the mechanisms of the EU. In brief these countries have agreed to report back, to your country of residency or citizenship, that you have a bank account. Practically what this means is if you have an account 'offshore' then your home tax authorities will know about it.

You can of course open a bank account outside those 100+ countries but in effect you can never take the money out of that country, so it would be pointless.

Brexit will have no impact on bank accounts and information sharing. In the same way Brexit will have no impact on taxation, as both measures are dealt with completely separately from the EU.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby elusive » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:09 pm

Manchesteral wrote:If any of you out there have offshore bank accounts, be cautious, My cousin who is a private investment banker and one of the smartest men I know has warned me that should a Brexit deal go the wrong way anyone living in Spain having offshore bank accounts could be subject to very severe and punitive investigations, just saying !
Which is the case now if you dont declare them (if required on the 720) and declare any intrest earned on your tax return. So whats new?

Manchesteral
Resident
Posts: 1967
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby Manchesteral » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:44 am

What's new is that if and when the U K becomes uncoupled from the E U then naturally the rules will change and Spain will bill looking for another way to gouge money from U K citizens in Spain, I have no intention of debating this subject as clearly everyone has the right answer, merely passing on a warning of caution !

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby elusive » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:25 am

Are non EU citizens who have offshore accounts treated any differently to EU citizens at this time?

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby El Cid » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:40 am

It's irrelevant what nationality they are - it is tax residents that are affected. Similarly, Brexit is largely irrelevant to tax issues.

Sid

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:28 pm

Manchesteral wrote:What's new is that if and when the U K becomes uncoupled from the E U then naturally the rules will change and Spain will bill looking for another way to gouge money from U K citizens in Spain, I have no intention of debating this subject as clearly everyone has the right answer, merely passing on a warning of caution !
I don't want to sound ungrateful for you well meaning warning, but I do feel I have to comment on scaremongering.

When the UK leaves the EU they will have the same relationship with Spain that the other 220+ non EU countries in the world have. Do you see any 'gouging' of those citizens? In fact the only differential in tax (or any finacial) treatment at present is the treatment of non EU citizens who are non residents and have Spanish taxes to pay.

All I understand from your comments is that somebody thinks Spain will solely go after UK citizens. Given that Spain does not gouge the other non EU nationalities , why would they single out UK citizens? What form would this gouging take? What steps should we take to mitigate it?

I understand you don't want to debate the situation but if you are going to pass warnings on please be at least willing to answer a few questions so that others can act on those warning.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby elusive » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:31 pm

El Cid wrote:It's irrelevant what nationality they are - it is tax residents that are affected. Similarly, Brexit is largely irrelevant to tax issues.

Sid
Exactly my point. The law is the same for all so make no difference whther the uk is in the eu or not. You still have to declare etc.

TorreDelAguila
Resident
Posts: 1356
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:52 am
Location: Sayalonga

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby TorreDelAguila » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:30 pm

Exactly. The only difference being that Brussels will no longer be asking Spain to do x,y or z in its dealings with UK citizens, and EU citizen rights will no longer apply to UK residents here. Those Brits who have chosen not to take out Spanish residency might want to think again.
Chris

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Offshore bank accounts

Postby El Cid » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:03 pm

I’m not sure I agree with your comment about EU citizens rights as a lot of these apply to EU legal residents irrespective of citizenship. For example, the right of permanent residency, granted after 5 years, applies to all residents, similarly the new free health cover rules. In many ways, legal residency trumps citizenship.

Sid


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests