Home for 3yr beagle

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Scot
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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Scot » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:25 pm

I think there are some breeds that shouldn't be trusted around children. I know all animals have the potential to harm (my cat can swipe and she's 12 years old :( ) but when the news broke of this 4 year old boys death, they said they thought the family were breeding dogs and I assumed "fighting" dogs. I hope I heard wrong.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Nimrod » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:01 pm

Scot,there was apicture of this dog in the paper today,
Apparently the owner used it as a canine Ronnie Kray.
Its chest was bigger than mine.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Pink Lady » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:33 pm

You can never say that a dog will never bite whether it has bitten before or not. There is always a risk of that happening, they are animals with animal instincts. Even the most docile, well-trained dog can bite given the right or should I say wrong situation.

No I wouldn't sit a child in a dangerous car or leave them with dodgey electrical equipment but I would also never leave a child with any dog whether it had bitten before or not. If someone wanted to take on the dangerous car or dodgey equipment with the full knowledge of what they were getting but they were going to fix the car or equipment then I would have no problem with doing that at all.

The owner of the Beagle has stated that she/he was aware that the dog does not see the children as his superiors like it does the adults. This issue should have been addressed long before the dog got to the point of biting one of them. It obviously wasn't and so the dog assumes he is superior to the children as he hasn't been taught otherwise and then we blame the dog. Sorry I stand by my statement that it is not the dogs fault.

There have been discussions here before regarding breed so I'm not going to say too much now but you cannot blame a certain breed for the attacks that happen on children or adults. It is the owners who unfortunately choose certain breeds because of the way they look and then they mistreat them, use them and abuse them and of course the results can be deadly.

Scot
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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Scot » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:32 pm

I don't think anyone with a family should have "certain" breeds. It came as no surprise to me today to find out the breed of the dog that killed the 4 year old. Never the twain shall meet. Some breeds should be outlawed as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Pink Lady » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:14 pm

The breed in this particular case was an illegal breed, it doesn't stop irresponsible people from breeding dogs and using them for the wrong reasons. If you look on the internet there are plenty of news stories about Labradors killing children, shall we ban them aswell?????

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Paula » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:45 pm

Of course labradors shouldn't be banned, generally they make good family pets.
The illegal breed dog that killed the child would surely never be chosen by anyone wanting a family pet. That type of dog is usually chosen by thugs who want to look big and threatening.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Scot » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:11 am

I agree Paula tho as I said, my chihuahua has bitten my daughter and I agree no dog is 100% safe. However, to put "certain" types of dogs with children/family is playing russian roulette with their lives. It's the fact that they are bred for fighting that I have a problem with and I'm not sure you can ask a dog to go against it's natural instinct. Every time a child is killed or mauled I just know, somehow, that's it's not going to be chocolate labrador.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby crazyred » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:14 pm

Here we go again with the 'lets kill all the potentially dangerous dogs' again. ALL dogs are potentially dangerous and as I have posted before, babies & children have been killed by Pomeranians, Jack Russels AND the beloved Labrador (including the wman who had the first face transplant - face chewed off by pet Labrador). I grew up with 'dangerous' dogs and I have NEVER had any problems with any of them as they have all been properly trained and socialised and have all been treated as dogs rather than babies. The dog in question was a 'Pit Bull type' which could mean that it doesn't actually have any Pit Bull in it. Also, these people were breeding, probably in less than favourable conditions and the dog had probably not had much, if any contact with children. Pit Bulls, Staffs, Bull Terriers etc... all do make excellent family pets BUT they must be treated like dogs and not babied and made to think they are head of the house, they must also be properly trained and socialised. What is needed is proper licencing and owner education, not breed specific legislation to drive these animals to extinction. You only have to watch Cesar Millan to see what wonders can be done even with battle scarred fighting Pit Bulls.
I have only ever been bitten by Jack Russells, Yorkshire Terriers & a cross GSD so we should now ban these breeds because they are dangerous?!?!?!

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby crazyred » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:27 pm

Scot wrote: It's the fact that they are bred for fighting that I have a problem with and I'm not sure you can ask a dog to go against it's natural instinct.


Most males of any breed of dogs want to fight other males, it's instinct. So called fighting dogs were bred for this instinct to fight other dogs NOT to maul children. In fact, the Pit Bulls were called Nanny dogs as they were left to guard the children and injured fighting dogs were frequently taken home in the pram with the baby. Any form of aggression towards a human and the dog was culled so as not to breed that into the next generation.

Paula wrote:The illegal breed dog that killed the child would surely never be chosen by anyone wanting a family pet. That type of dog is usually chosen by thugs who want to look big and threatening.


Yes, I'm a real thug!! All 4'11" 8 stone of me. Actually these breeds have a fantastic character, are extremely intelligent and yes I would choose them as a family pet. My current incredibly dangerous fighting dog, a Presa Canario (weighing nearly 60kg), lets the kids ride on his back and is currently letting my one eyed cat chew his nose. When I had a tiny 2 week old kitten in the house, he wouldn't pick his feet up when he was near her in case he trod on her!!

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Julie » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:47 pm

You obviously have a strong personality, which any animal would soon pick up on and respect, but sadly for the dogs this isn't always the case, and with this lack of leadership the dog being a pack animal takes over, sadly a lot of people can't be trained no matter how much you try to do this, hence the animals suffer, its not a ideal world that we live in. I don't think there is a right answer just all opinions,which are not helping this beadle or its owner !
No soporto ver la casa sucia, ahora mismo me levanto y apago la luz.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Paula » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:54 am

Paula wrote:The illegal breed dog that killed the child would surely never be chosen by anyone wanting a family pet. That type of dog is usually chosen by thugs who want to look big and threatening.


Yes, I'm a real thug!! All 4'11" 8 stone of me. Actually these breeds have a fantastic character, are extremely intelligent and yes I would choose them as a family pet. My current incredibly dangerous fighting dog, a Presa Canario (weighing nearly 60kg), lets the kids ride on his back and is currently letting my one eyed cat chew his nose. When I had a tiny 2 week old kitten in the house, he wouldn't pick his feet up when he was near her in case he trod on her!![/quote]

Don't overeact to other peoples opinions, you are coming across as feeling slightly superior. You are not exactly the norm are you, the norm leans more towards thugs, hoodies and drug dealers walking the streets with these dogs. How many families do you see in the park with these dogs? Sorry but you don't.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Jool » Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:48 am

No I think the poor owner only has the two choices, to rehome it is not really an option, I still believe the dog can be trained if the family are trained as a unit as well, children included (not so easy) to keep the dog in its place and of course initially it will not want to co-operate with this at all but within very short space of time will be a happier dog.......

I so understand how they feel, one of my rescue dogs is scared of other dogs out in the street, especially ones off the lead and acts aggressive to them, has never done anything other than a tiny warning nip on the nose (no blood drawn) to keep away when she was approached but people see her and say what a horrible dog she is as she seems so fierce yet she is the most loving, caring and kind dog to humans and other dogs in her pack......she was attacked by another dog when she was in an unsafe situation herself as a youngster at least twice that we know of before we rescued her and although have done lots of training with her the trigger is still there and she goes into another zone - only towards other dogs and she will try and protect other dogs with her too but it is still stressful for me and I am still working on it..........she has been spayed recently so I am hoping this may calm her down a little in this regard and allow training to get through at stress trigger point........

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Pauly » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:51 am

Reports in today's Press of an inquest into the death of a 51 year old male who was killed through massive blood loss after been attacked by 2 GSDs.
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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Jool » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:56 pm

21 year old male and the owner of the dogs had previously been to Court for having 3 out of control rottweilers who attacked a woman´s dog when out walking and the stupid courts did not ban him from keeping dogs, the man killed tried to separate two GSD´s who lived together and were fighting......and they of course then turned on him, normal pack behaviour.

I don´t think its helpful for the original poster if we get into generalisations as animals are only as well behaved as their owner and the training they have received, for instance, if my lovely dog does not stop being aggressive towards to other dogs when we are out she will have to wear a muzzle at those times just in case........to ensure she never actually does anything but I am hoping it will not come to that.......it is our responsibility as higher in the evolutionary scale (well in most cases anyway, although many dogs are better than a lot of human thugs) to ensure others are not at risk from our dogs.......and we should always remember any animal can turn at any time given the provocation and circumstances, look at the tiger trainer who nearly died after many successful years etc etc.......

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Big Col » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:26 pm

Hi there

been reading this thread as its been developing, and some very interesting comments,I still feelling sorry for the orginal poster that finds them selves in a no win situation.

I believe my wife and I are responsible animal owners, our dogs are are family,but back when our kids were young we have had times when a dog has retailated, and nipped bit one of our kids, and 10 out of 10 its been somthing that has prefolked the dogs.Chidren should never be left alone because kids can and will be cruel whether intentonal or not. A poke there, or finger in the eye,jumping on the dogs or just frightning them whilst aseep,When arriving home one of our daughters was sreaming and crying and saying that she was scarred for life because our staffordshire had bitten her in the face,I was very concerned but knew that there was more to the story,only finding out the truth when our other daughter grassed up on her younger sibling saying that our staff was playing with her and got inside her pillarcase and our youngest proceded to drag the family pet up and down the stairs thinking it was funny. Of course our dog would retailate.

The thing is a dog is for life, and if brought up with respect and love will turn out quite normal.Its all down to the owners im afraid, just like you have responsible owners you get resposible Parents

and just like the last case in the paper you get iresponsible dog owners!!
and would you believe we get iresponsible parrents

the way we learnt when we were younger if i done somthing wrong at school, we would eventualy get the cane or the slipper or and detention, and when i got home late or let slip we got punished our parrents done it all over again!!!
Why is it now when a child comes home moaning that a teacher has had a go at them, that the parents are putting on their coats and marching down the school and threatning staff not to tell their children off!!!

We learn by having rules and laws, but like so many younger people today they have never had boundaries.Theirs no respect, this is why we have the young generation taughting swearing and atacking our police forces, and getting away with it.

Nine times out of ten, these people have never been punished, talked to yes, thats what we all are suppose to do now when kids scream at their own parents , and the only right way is to sit down with a bit of cake and talk to them, and explain the error of their ways, and not to do it again.

The fact is these are the kids that could grow up and who be going arround mugging rapeing,stabbing throwing accid over some young girl face, these are folks that believe theirs nothing wrong in their actions, and it all bores down to how they were brought up, by the parents and,teachers

what we dont do as parents when our kids cause havoc, extreme violence, in the street is have the option in having them put down to sleep.

I know im rambling,prescription drugs induced im afraid

Before I would rehome a dog for nipping, any violence retaliating, I would talk to it with a cup of tea and a piece of cake first,lol what the dog done was a mistake,it needs to be shown it was wrong, if it persists take it to a policeman who will give it another talking to, then if the puppy still dont toll the line, some couciling,or it may be given comunity service, may be a holiday somwhere, all this time the dog will have lots of lectures
it could eventurly get a hasbo, :) and be able to wear it arround his collor with pride :D
maybe even get put into care, :) then another short break, :D :D

One thing we wouldnt do, is have the culprits put down!!!


Im sorry if this post has upset anyone, but just looking at a evenings/daytime viewing on reality Television regards to violence on our streets humans to humans,dog fighting humans getting animals to fight

Are we a sad lot or not when we find it so easy to give advice regarding the future of a loving pet, yet all arround us society and family values are in crisis, and people getting away scott free with all sorts including cruel violence


If anyone wants to buy some morphine please get in touch :lolno: :lol: :lolno:


Col

frank
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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby frank » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:35 pm

"!'m sorry if this post has upset anyone"
Hasn't upset me one iota, but just find it all a bit pathetic, especially that a dog can be 100% innocent in every case, and humans 100% guilty.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Big Col » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:17 pm

frank wrote:"!'m sorry if this post has upset anyone"
Hasn't upset me one iota, but just find it all a bit pathetic, especially that a dog can be 100% innocent in every case, and humans 100% guilty.


I totaly agree lets rationalise

From now on all dogs are 100% guilty, and all humans are now Innocent!!! :clap:

WOW SO EASY!!! All sorted!! now we know what cililisation has been doing wrong all these years

Frank! havent heard the word "iota" said for long time, taken me back years :)

col

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Pauly » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:05 pm

The original post was seeking a new home for a beagle that had bitten someone - whether that makes it a truly dangerous dog none of us really know unless it happens again and the extent to which it causes injury or worse.

I do feel very sorry for the owner because, as I explained, I've been in the same position and it's not an easy decision.

The threads that have followed split into at least a couple of camps - the 'put to sleep' folks and the 'not the poor dog's fault'.

It's clearly a really emotive subject! And, it can't really have resolved matters for the beagle's owner!

Perhaps I err too much on the side of caution. If a new owner can be found who understands what has happened and whose circumstances are such that it's guaranteed a repeat performance will not end in disaster then that's a win/win situation. My worry is that we all know that when dealing with kids and animals an adult's attention can easily be diverted - and that's when things can go badly wrong.

I respect other peoples' viewpoints and hope I haven't upset anyone. Whatever the decision I hope it works out for everyone's sake.
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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Devils Advocate » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:12 pm

And how many "lovely" dogs now happily rehomed via animal charities etc. had previous history, which went undeclared, makes you think.

At the end of the day as posters have already said, the events of the "bite" are not fully known to any of us.

What if the dogs paw was being squashed for 30 seconds before it just had to make a move :crazy:
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Home for 3yr beagle

Postby Paula » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:00 pm

Pauly wrote:The original post was seeking a new home for a beagle


Precisely. The OP was fairly clear in the post that they have made the decision and want to rehome the dog. Understandable after what happened, though as many have said there could be rational reasons in doggy world as to why it bit. My last dog was as soft as can be, but had a very bad experience with a dog groomer clipping his nails. I know for a fact that after that he would have attacked anyone who tried to clip his nails, as he felt threatened, he had to be sedated at the vets for nail clipping forever more.


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