Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

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Beachcomber
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Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:43 pm

I have opened this topic specifically for questions and comments on the FAQ relating to instructions for completing the new style form 210 for non-resident income tax which can be found here:

FAQ - New style form 210

Just for reference here is the link to what was previously the most recent thread on this subject:

Old thread re form 210

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Martin Page
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Martin Page » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:18 pm

Excellent work Beach - thank you !

When are the payments for the year 2011 actually due

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:22 pm

Declarations for 2011 can be made at any time during this current year right up until 31st December unless you have more than one property in which case the deadline is the 30th June.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ashtondav » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:19 pm

I have been completing this form for Q2, Q3 and just now Q4, for rental income on my apartment now the 215 form has been replaced with the single form. My neighbour tells me I have a notification of a registered letter. Is this the tax office, I wonder?. So (and I fully understand you will not be able to answer everything) am i correct in some, any, all the following assumptions:

1. Neither the bank nor the taxpayer now posts anything to the Hacienda? When you click the complete button that sends data to the tax office?

2. My road has been renamed and i have used this road name and "offical" address on the last 6 months' quarterly returns. I used the old road name in the 7 years' worth of old form 215s. Will this result in an automatic summons to the tax office? (I have included my catastral reference on the latest Q's 210 - i would have thought that made matters clear about the fact it's the same residence). IBI has yet another address which was what the apartment block site was called when it grew avocados!

3. The new form asks for an email address and UK home address and a UK phone number. Does this mean i will get communication to these addresses. Or will i remain playing "catch the bouncing registered letter" which takes about a year given my appearances in Spain. I'll hazard a guess i'll need to enjoy a few hours and bureaucracy getting a digital signature.

4. Through misunderstanding I neither included my UK NI number nor passport number on all 3 of the quarterly returns. When i clicked the final "complete" button I was taken straight through to the finished pdf - i did not get an error message. Again will i be playing "registered letter" ping pong for a few months?

5. As with 4. on the first two Quarterly returns i did not include the catastral ref. number. Again i was able to print a pdf without any error message, and pay the quarterly tax. It is therefore unclear to me what boxes are mandatory and what are "voluntary".

6. Finally, it seems that in the light of the above i wll indeed need a gestor. Grrrr.

I can also confirm that my bank had no idea how to process this form 210 (in place of 215), or provide any giuidance or advice. This despite it being an international branch and me being quite late in submitting the return. I can only assume that no one pays tax on rental income in my area!

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:22 pm

As you say, it is rather difficult to answer your questions. I can only give you my thoughts!

The copy that the bank keeps is marked 'Ejemplar para la Entidad Colaboradora/Administración' so I don't know whether they may pass that copy on to AEAT once the payment is made. It seems logical that the data is sent to AEAT when you validate the form, but even if it is, it wouldn't become active until the payment is made.

If the tax office is trying to contact you it is more likely that it is a query over your figures rather than whether you have completed any particular box correctly but your registered letter could be from any one of a number of sources. As for the referencia catastral, many properties are not issued with one for four or five years after it is completed so they must get many declarations that don't show one and numbers and street names are always being changed anyway.

They ask for a fiscal ID in your country of residence if you have one. The NI or passport number is the closest you have in the UK to a fiscal ID and I don't think leaving it blank would be an issue.

I'm not sure if they will contact you in the UK if they have a query. Your best course of action, as I have said before, is to obtain an electronic signature the next time you are in Spain and register for notifications by email and/or SMS. You could also make your quarterly declarations from the UK using this method. The only part that necessitates a face to face confrontation with bureaucracy is when you go to the Town Hall to validate your identity. The rest of the procedure is carried out from your computer.

There are only certain errors that will be reported when you try to validate the form. I haven't discovered what they all are yet but entering the wrong codigo postal is one of them and making a mistake with the NIE number is another.

I assume you are aware that you must complete a notional income tax return with the payment being pro-rata to the number of days that your property was not actually rented out.

Remember, this new system has only been introduced in the past year so they must be getting thousands of forms that are not completed correctly and they seem to be more intent on enforcing payment by people that are trying to dodge the system rather than taking current tax payers to task for basic form filling errors.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby concorde » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:34 pm

Hi Beachcomber,
many thanks for putting up the very helpful post on completing the new 210.
Thanks to the help on previus postings we have always managed to fill in our forms correctly over the past few years, including the wealth tax on the old 214 form.

The only query I have, and I do remember older posts with this concern, is that although non-resident we have always entered our nie number. This has always been accepted, should we change it now, to our N.I. no. or passport no. as recommended?

Thanks.
I'm always disappointed when a liar's pants don't actually catch on fire.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Julie » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:52 pm

Idon't have to use passport numbers, its a nightmare when you renew and get a new number, i have had to use the british consulate to sort out paperwork for me due to this, and it was not cheap :(

I also would like to say a big thank-you to beach for doing this, great help as usual :)
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:03 am

You still put your NIE number in the box marked 'NIF' under 'Taxpayer' (Contribuyente). The program uses this information, together with your name, to generate the barcode. The box in which I am saying you should put your passport or National Insurance number is the one just below it entitled 'NIF in the country of residence' (NIF en el país de residencia) which, for most non-resident members of this forum, is the United Kingdom

I have edited the FAQ to make this clearer.

The instructions in respect of this box state:

'Si el contribuyente dispone de un número de identificación fiscal asignado en su país o territorio de residencia se consignará en esta casilla'.

'If the taxpayer has been assigned a fiscal identification number in his country of residence it should be entered in this box '

There is no real equivalent to a NIF in the UK but the helpline says you can put your National Insurance or passport number. I got the impression that it is no big deal and that if you leave it blank it won't really matter.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby concorde » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:25 am

Thanks for clearing that up, I hadn't actually looked at the new form yet, hence my confusion. :oops:
I'm always disappointed when a liar's pants don't actually catch on fire.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:55 pm

I see that the 'financial advice services' are jumping on the non-resident tax bandwagon again. In a full page item in one local English language newspaper it is stated that the base value is 1% or 2% of the valor catastral. I can assure you that it is 1,1% or 2% of the valor catastral.

Mention is also made of the reintroduction of wealth tax (patrimonio) 'for a couple of years' but fails to point out that the primary residence of a resident property owner is exempt and that a threshold of around €600.000 applies to non-residents as well as residents. Perhaps he wants to leave that information until he has got you in for a 'consultation'.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Stoker » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:24 pm

Hi Beachcomber

Many thanks for publishing this extremely useful guide to completing Modelo 210.

I have one query at the moment:-

Under "Income obtained" Box 03 you advise entering 826 to indicate GB Pounds. In previous guides that I have read (e.g. the one published by the Mijas Foreigners Dept) the advice was to enter 954 to indicate Euros. What are the implications of entering one or the other?

Many Thanks

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:02 am

The AEAT helpline told me 826 when I asked them although this was several years ago.

In the instructions accompanying the form it states:

'Clave de divisa: De la relación adjunta de claves de divisas se indicará la divisa utilizada para hacer los pagos.'

'Foreign Currency Code: Regarding the attached foreign currency codes indicate the foreign currency used to make the payments'.

Non-resident property owners do not normally have any source of income in Spain so they exchange sterling, or the currency of their home country if they are outside of the eurozone, in one way or another to pay their Spanish bills including non-resident taxes, hence 826. Looking at it logically, If everyone had to put 954 regardless of the currency of their country of residence what would be the point in having the option to enter other currencies?

If you feel happier entering 954 don't let me persuade you otherwise. In actual fact, it probably doesn't make one iota of difference.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Stoker » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:04 pm

I suppose it would help if to understand what the purpose of entering GB in the old paper forms (Box 1 - Codigo pais)- I see from your guide that this particular field no longer seems to be necessary.

I follow your logic though.

I haven't been able to access the new form on-line yet. When I click on the link provided I get a blank screen with a heading Cargando entomo ... espere, por favor, and then a message about the site wanting to download an applet. When I accept this then nothing seems to happen other than the spinning wheel going round and round. I am using Safari on an Apple MacBook.

Many Thanks for your help.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:02 pm

Are you using Chrome?

Codigo País is still there. There is one to enter under 'Tax Payer' and one under 'Address in country of residence' It will be GB in both instances( Assuming you were born in, and a resident of, the United Kingdom).

I have added this to the instructions in case it is not clear.

I have read your post again and see that you are using Safari. The same thing happens when I try it with Chrome and I don't know how to overcome the problem as, unlike Firefox, neither of these two browsers seem to have and 'about:config' facility.

Edit:

I have tried this and other AEAT forms that use this method of entering data and none of them work with either Chrome or Safari. Something in each browser obviously has to be changed but, as I said before, I have no idea what. Perhaps someone who uses either of these two browsers can come up with an answer.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby sunseeker1 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:46 pm

This is very helpful, thanks. I have been trying to generate the form for a few days but keep gettng the same error message:

EN ESTOS MOMENTOS SU PETICION NO PUEDE SER ATENDIDA, CODIGO DE ERROR:0115

I'm confident that I've input the data correctly, having addressed any error messages about misisng data, but then I always get back to this dead end. I'm using IE8. (On another PC, using IE9, I can never get all the compulsory address fields to be available in the "Situacion del inmeuble" section after 02 has been entered under "Renta Obtenida")

Any ideas?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Stoker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Hi Beachcomber

I've installed Firefox and followed the instructions provided and have now been able to see what it is that you have been writing about. It all makes a lot more sense now being able to see it in the "flesh"! The only disconcerting thing is that the agenciatributaria.gob.es has an invalid security certificate.

Have you had the warning message about this?

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:44 pm

I was going to suggest that Sunseeker1 tries it with Firefox. I don't usually use IE but I have tried it and cannot replicate the problem you have with the address fields. You have to select the province from the dropdown box before you can enter the municipality.

I have also found this regarding IE which may help:

Configure IE

Stoker, The security certificate issue is not a problem. The same thing crops up with many government web sites, even the one from which you complete the process to apply for your own electronic signature!

I have queried this with the IT section of the AEAT helpline and they say that there is a certificate but that it is shown as invalid because they haven't updated it to the appropriate web address which is changing constantly as they introduce new procedures.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Stoker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:47 pm

The next time I'm in the Apple Shop I'll ask about the issue with Safari. If I get an answer I'll let you know.

I wondered if it might be something to do with the Firewall and I changed my settings to allow incoming connections but it didn't seem to make any difference.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:30 pm

One of the AEAT FAQs suggest that some of their programs are not compatible with Safari. There are configuration instructions available only for Firefox and IE. However, it would be interesting to hear what they say in the Apple shop.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby sunseeker1 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:46 pm

Just tried to generate the form with Firefox and again with IE8 on my PC. Also tried on my laptop, using IE7, to eliminate the possibility of the firewall being the cause of the problem. For me all roads lead to the same error message (015 as above).

Update: now I'm having trouble even getting to the input form with my own efforts via the aeat site and even the link in Beach's instructions, taking me directly to the "validar y generar pdf" page and then the error message again.

Having eliminated possible causes my end I would have assumed that there is a problem currently with the AEAT site but if others can get there I guess it must be something I'm doing or not doing. Can't think what as the data is being accepted as correct but it just won't populate and generate the 210 form. Ho hum


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