Can't afford autonomo

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jukim
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Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:30 am

What happens when you're not earning enough to pay the autonomo and tax and gestor. How do you go about de-registering? Is anyone else in the same boat having to keep paying and paying and not earning?

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby chrissiehope » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:07 pm

I'm not autonomo, but know someone who is, and they told me you can de-register in advance a month at a time, if you don't think you will have work the following month. How you do that, I'm afraid I have no idea.. :(
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby wildside » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:48 pm

Hi,

Speak to your gestor or assesor laboral if you have one and they will arrange it... You can only quit autonomo a full month so even if you work the first day of a month you are liable for the full months payment. If i remember rightly you need to advise your accountant before the 20th of the month so there is time to process the papers in time....

yes, I'm in the same boat...... :(

Hope things get better for you soon....

regards

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:29 pm

Thanks for the replies, I do have an assesor (who I also pay a small fortune to a month). Have you any idea how it then affects your health cover? I will speak to the asessor it's just that I'd like a bit of information so I don't feel like such an imbecile. I've really tried so hard to do things by the book and pay into the system as I think it only fair, but when your outgoings exceed your incomings and that's just for tax, asesor and tax, I don't know how they expect anyone to continue. Feeling a bit low at the minute I'm afraid. :cry: :cry:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:31 am

I deregistered about fifteen years ago when I sold my business but my wife is still autónomo and, as you say, sometimes the outgoings exceed income although for her it doesn't really matter as we have other sources of income. You can present 'sin actividad' declarations for your income tax and IVA but, as others have said, you have to cancel your social security payments well in advance.

The question of health cover does not arise for us as we have private health insurance but I think you would be well advised to struggle on with your social security payments if you can unless you are going to deregister permanently in which case your social security health cover will cease after a period of time.

There will also be a problem when you come to do your annual tax return as you will not be able to show an income with which you are funding your existence in Spain with the inference being (by AEAT not me) that you are continuing to work but not declaring the income.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby biribiri » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:18 am

Re the health cover. I'm sure I remember hearing from someone in the same boat, that as autonomo and deregistering they only had three months grace before it is taken away.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:46 am

Struggling on with health cover is not an option... how can I when I'm not earning anything? I've always thought that honesty was the best policy... but you can't pay something you don't have. We have a tiny amount of savings in an UK bank account which would have to see us through as long as it takes. Surely they can't see that as an income?

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:29 pm

I sympathise with you but can't really offer a solution. There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of foreigners (foreign to Spain, I mean) in the same predicament.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby gus-lopez » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:41 pm

jukim wrote:Struggling on with health cover is not an option... how can I when I'm not earning anything? I've always thought that honesty was the best policy... but you can't pay something you don't have. We have a tiny amount of savings in an UK bank account which would have to see us through as long as it takes. Surely they can't see that as an income?


No they can't . Income is a wage from working, pension or interest from savings, etc . Spending capital is not classed as income.
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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:27 pm

gus-lopez wrote:
jukim wrote:Struggling on with health cover is not an option... how can I when I'm not earning anything? I've always thought that honesty was the best policy... but you can't pay something you don't have. We have a tiny amount of savings in an UK bank account which would have to see us through as long as it takes. Surely they can't see that as an income?


No they can't . Income is a wage from working, pension or interest from savings, etc . Spending capital is not classed as income.


Thanks... that's a bit of a relief. Will speak to the assesoria next week and hopefully get something sorted. Apparently you can get a grace period of 3 months healthcare and maybe then things may start to improve on the economic front for me and loads of others too. Let's all hope. :eh:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:37 am

If you are going to be living on savings from the UK make sure that you bring in the funds through your Spanish bank so that you are easily able to prove, if necessary, how you are supporting yourself rather than bringing it in sterling and exchanging it in an exchange bureau. As a Spanish resident you should have been declaring any interest on your annual Spanish income tax declaration.

Sorry to be so pedantic about this but if you are going to remove yourself from the system but stay in Spain you need to be in a position to answer any awkward questions, if they are asked, especially if you want to register again when the economic situation enables you to do so.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:03 am

Yes, we've been raiding the savings for the past two years to some extent (into our Spanish bank account) to supplement income in the hopes that things would improve. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be imminent. I know that there are probably a lot of other people out there in the same boat or worse but it doesn't make it easier for me. Sadly, if things don't improve in the near future, we will have no alternative but to leave, as being autonomo you have the double whammy of not being able to claim unemployment either. Similar story in the UK too so if I'm forced back McDonalds or Sainsbury's or me and to hell with trying to help myself. Bitter.. yes, just a bit.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby markwilding » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:55 am

Beachcomber wrote:I sympathise with you but can't really offer a solution. There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of foreigners (foreign to Spain, I mean) in the same predicament.

And many Spanish too and its behind my thinking that many of them are in fact employed but can't afford to pay in so appear as unemployed.It's not a great system, is very inflexible and doesn't encourage people to pay.
To unregister is quite straight forward but you must do it in the same month you want the payments to stop. EG if you do it on the 31st of Jan, your last payment will be in January.If you do it on the 1st of Feb,then you will have to pay febuary's payment too.You'll need to visit the same two offices you went to when you registered.
As has aready been said you need to consider your options because after three months you'll not be entitled to health care and I assume your pension rights will be affected too.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby jukim » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:18 am

I used to be the first to say it wasn't right for people to be living in a country and not contributing to the system, but now I fully understand why they don't. It's not because they don't want to, it's because they can't afford to (well hopefully most anyway). As for options, I wish I had some to consider... I can't see any... I've been self employed for donkeys years, here and in the UK and you always seem to get screwed for being honest. I've had it, if things don't improve and I end up back in the UK, it's definitely as an employee or a collectee of benefits.. why fret myself to death trying to make a living when I don't have to. I'm not young any more and I'm tired. :thumbdown:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:27 am

I entirely agree. If AEAT and INSS spent a bit more effort tracking down people who blatantly flout the system and made them pay it would go a long way to relieving the punitive burden on others, especially the self-employed, who pay through the nose and get very little in return.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby Devils Advocate » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:49 am

I've got nothing to add of any help in this thread, I've just read it and can only comiserate with Jukim and his position.

However it strikes me as very poignant how Jukims attitude differs so much from the Spanish mentality. He obviously wants to work, pay his dues and be a part in keeping society going, something by and large most Brits have instilled in them from the day they start work, I know I did/do.

And is this in some way the real problem with a united Europe ? The Spanish we know very well after 10 years of owning a place there are by and large lovely people, salt of the earth and would die for you........but when it comes to paying taxes on their endeavours they just don't want to know, everything is cash, everything. The stigma of tax dodging is just not what it is like in the UK, almost on a par with drink driving, in Spain it is the norm from what I see.

A complicated system which puts people off taking part and a total lack of enforcement to monitor who's earning what must just be catastrophic to the Governments budget. That is why I think the notion of countries with completely different ethics on how the country is funded sharing a common pot is silly.

Again, I do feel sorry for Jukim but the Spanish don't give a toss about rules and regs........what they earn they keep, and stuff the infrastructure, pot holes rule :mrgreen: ...........and no I'm not even knocking them for it, it's the norm and has gone on since Jesus was a lad but it does shock people who come from a proper system. Jukim tries to do the right thing and gets stuffed, same with houses and property, the Spanish couldn't give a flying **** if they don't have an Obra Nuevo, or are on a builders electric supply or don't have an escitura......the Brits go all wobbly if a Juntas spy plane flies over!!!
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby hillybilly » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:53 am

:clap:

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby BENIDORM » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:54 am

Jukim,
I am so sorry to hear about your predicament, and as you have stated you are not alone.

It is such a shame that so many families are being forced to return to their homelands because of the economic situation, and very frustrating knowing that with just a little help many would be able to 'ride the storm' until the situation improves, which I'm confident it will...but when ?

I don't know what type of work/ business that you are involved with and although I'm sure that you will have explored most possibilities and avenues, I wonder if there is a chance that perhaps you could change direction and try something different ?.
Perhaps you could talk discreetly to some other business person who may be able to take an unbiased look at your business and offer some positive advice.
There are many retired business people in Spain who have a wealth of experience to share,and if approached ,I'm sure that they maybe to offer you some sound advice.
I can understand your bitterness, but may I suggest that you try to put it to oneside and concentrate on being positive, difficult I know, but emotions such as bitterness will pull you down even further.
It was, for people like yourself, that I suggested to the A.Com management that perhaps they could relax their rules on members 'advertising' their business / work.

Anyway ,I wish you Good Luck in overcoming your problems, you've already made a very positive step by being prepared to talk about your predicament on this forum.

Regards,
Gordon..

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby markwilding » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:49 am

Beachcomber wrote:I entirely agree. If AEAT and INSS spent a bit more effort tracking down people who blatantly flout the system and made them pay it would go a long way to relieving the punitive burden on others, especially the self-employed, who pay through the nose and get very little in return.

I totally agree. But I do think some posters are wrong to blame the Spanish workers,some who earn so little that they just can't afford to pay it. It's the system that is bad and I'm sure there are many foreign EU workers who make the decision not to pay it too.
In fact, the system is almost too simple and does't take into account the workers who earn around 100 to 200 euros per week doing jobs such as cleaning houses, looking after children or maybe gardening.It doesn't matter if you earn 500 euros in a month or two thousand, the minimum payment is the same around 250-279 euros a month,which is a hefty amount out of 600 euros and if you earn less it becomes almost ridiculous.
This is Jukim's predicament and it wouldn't be hard to understand if he decided to unregister

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Re: Can't afford autonomo

Postby katy » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:45 pm

I think Jukim is a she :)

One of our cleaners told me she paid a reduced rate autonomo. Specifically set up for agricultural workers who work part time for different employers. Was a few years ago.


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