NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Information and questions about the Law in Spain and Andalucia.
User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Tue May 29, 2012 1:40 am

I could have told this ongoing story on blog, face, space, tweet or in the papers. But as a target audience, we are all living the same dream, nightmare, or somewhere in between, in Andalucia.
Not having a Spanish Will can lead to a nightmare to those left behind, to pay the price for a loved one's selfishness or ignorance. I am going to use real first names and places. I am not going to protect the guilty.
If your loved one owns the paperwork for your house, goat business in the mountains, QE2 moored in Puerto Banus, whatever, and you have nothing in writing, my story could happen to you. !!!
Judith owned a bungalow on the Isle of Wight, and I, Ralph, was her companion there for 10 years. She watched too many Place in the Sun type programmes. In April 2002, car loaded, house for sale,we arrived in Andalucia.
We rented, then bought and sold 2 houses on the coast and ended up here in Estacion Cortes de la Frontera 8 years ago. 6 of those years we lived the dream, Judith owning the house and had made no will, we enjoyed life.
2 years ago she became seriously ill with fibroids turning into cancer. She refused medical treatment believing in self-healing and herbs. I had to care for her and eventually called the ambulance when the pain was too much for her to bear.
Judith had a little Bichon Frese, 4 years old and in good health. Judith, very ill and knowing her time was up, wanted Fiesta to be put down, as she believed that no one could look after Fiesta as well as she did. I refused, took Fiesta from her and looked after her for two weeks in the Autumn of last year, explaining to Judith that I would take Fiesta to a dog shampoo place in Ronda once a month and that I will look after her. The dog was happy with me.
Two weeks later, Judith paid for her son, Derek (who I respected for holding down 3 cleaning jobs), daughter, Caroline, (on benefit with 4 boys of 4 different fathers) and her son, Josh, to fly from UK.
This is where the story begins....
The 3 of them arrived at the house and spent hours with their bed bound mother. The next 5 days they were off out in the mum paid rented car. On the 5th day I caught Josh with his nan's ATM card and pin number. I asked what was going on. He said he had money problems in Cornwall and his nan had given him permission to draw €600 per day for 5 days. I eventually got out of him that he owed this money to a drug dealer, pay up on return to the UK or he was going to be killed. I told him to tell his nan or I will. She, upset, took the money back. But eventually gave in as Caroline pestered for hours that he was a good boy and Josh said he would never do it again.
A couple of days later Caroline came in and said she was going to take Fiesta to the vet. I was upset, but as I am 65 have Parkinson's and bad circulation, could do nothing. The 3 of them went to the vet and returned without Fiesta. Caroline said it was lovely, took her for a little walk, had her on her lap as she gently passed away. If I was young and fit I would have thrown her out of the window. Little minx. I subsequently found out that they had been to Judith's bank and got the forms to become account holders in Judith's account. They needed Judith's signature and Judith would only sign if her Fiesta request was fulfilled. And they killed a healthy dog without a care in the world. They were in their mum's account. €11,000+ in their grasp.
Caroline had heard that the best way to escape Inheritance tax was to form a company around the house. A couple of days later, Eduardo the abogado, arrived from a black advert in a certain english coastal newspaper. I had offered to pay the tax from my inheritance when my mother's estate was finalised. Rejected. But it was agreed that after Judith's death that I would live in the house for 5 years, paying all the bills and a €1,250pa company tax. (Judith and I had an arrangement that she paid the direct debits ie. elec, phone, townhall and I would pay the cash bills, gas, car, shopping etc. which worked well). C, D and J returned to the UK. It seemed strange to set up a company when Eduardo said that he would value the house at €130,000, the same price as when Judith bought it in 2004. This was €45,000 below the kick in level of Inheritance tax. Still, he went home with €5,800 in his pocket. A happy bunny.
Just before Christmas 2011 this Eduardo turned up at the house with a young lady Notaria. The company papers were signed by Judith. Then she suddenly said out loud. " I want Ralph to stay in the house and I do not want it sold". Eduardo translated this to the Notaria and turned to me and said do you agree. My response was "Yes". They left the house. I had 5 years of security in my own home........or so I thought....
For the next 3 months I was left to care for Judith, changing nappies, shopping, visits to the medical centre, pharmacy, Ronda for commode etc. etc. I had next to no sleep, not eaten a proper meal, the house was not cleaned, though I did manage to feed my 2 cats and water our 150+ pot plants. I was on automatic. Then my angels came. Hilda, so caring, and Jessie used her spanish and did practical jobs and they stood in for me, an hour, morning and evening. Jessie tried to get a state carer to help me but they said that they would start considering it after 10 months had elapsed. Wonderful !
Caroline turned up from the UK, 3 days before Judith died. She took the day shift and I did the night. She couldn't cope. Jessie woke me upon Judith's last day, in a panic, saying that Caroline was going to put a second morphine patch on her mum. I said, no way. I told Caroline to get permission or she may be arrested for overdosing her mum. Permission was obtained and Judith died a couple of hours later.
The villagers came and sat by the coffin for 24 hours. €250 was left in Judith's account after Caroline paid €2000 for the cremation etc. Caroline then went round the house taking to the UK, with her, every document she could find.When she walked out of the door she looked like that white naked creature that wanted the ring from the hobbit in Lord of the Rings. "It's mine!"
10 days later I started getting text messages from Derek. Buy the house for €200,000 or rent at €600pm. Time I got a lawyer, Juan in Sabanillas, who told me I had nothing written and I had no rights at all, as Eduardo couldn't remember exactly what Judith had said in front of the Notaria and could not put it in writing. I told C&D that I wanted nothing more to do with them or the company, but I will stay here, fight and keep paying my normal bills. Derek text to say I had to leave, a letter of eviction will arrive shortly and I was only to take anything I had a receipt for or it would be stealing and they would claim it back. I had offered to pay the Inheritance tax, made an offer of €90,000 for the house, offered half rent, offered to move all Judith's ashes, clothes, treasures etc. back to the UK. Rejected. I'm ending up ill and fed up with it all.
Two Sundays ago I blocked their UK numbers on my mobile and immediately everything changed for the better...............
Five minutes after I blocked Derek, Caroline and Eduardo on my mobile. Fritz and Erica, my German friends, said on the phone that they were going to Sabanillas shopping and would I like to go. I arranged to meet Juan, my abogado, and while there he told me to get all of my possessions out of the house as quickly as possible. I got home and my mobile was telling me of incoming text messages all afternoon and nothing came up. Derek!! I started packing and all the anger, frustration, tears suddenly left and was replaced with a glimmer of hope. Spanish neighbours rallied around, found me a room for my things. All I had to do was pack and stack and they did the moving for me. They found me a flat to rent at next to nothing in 2 weeks time, when I will shut down this house, checked by friends that everything was okay when I lock up for the last time. All my pot plants will have a new home with the spanish friends. I will cancel the direct debits and leave the house for Caroline and Derek to lose. They have no money, but they have to pay their Marbella lawyer (maybe he will forget as he is so forgetful), the €1250 annual tax and the ayuntamiento bills. I got that feeling that they will end up with nothing.
I now have so many, not friends, but family here in Estacion. People who I will miss dearly when I move to a beach flat in Sabanillas when I will make a Spanish Will. I have had the dream, the nightmare and soon the dream again.
My moral to this ongoing tale is make sure you are covered by a Spanish Will, anything verbally agreed put down in writing and stamped by a Notary, and have you got that receipt for your treasured possessions? If not my story may be repeated with you.
I needed friends and moral support which I have here in Estacion, but you are welcome to post or email me at ralph.whillier@gmail.com I really do need to smile again.
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

User avatar
IreneD
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2151
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:35 pm
Location: Canillas de Aceituno

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby IreneD » Tue May 29, 2012 8:31 am

We have made a will so whichever one of us is left won't have to go through the nightmare time you've had.

You sound like a very nice person and it's good to hear that your Spanish friends have rallied around you. I hope you soon settle into your new place and can return to living the dream. Sorry that you and Judith didn't safeguard your future and hopefully your warning will save others.

All the very best, Bluefish.

jhonie99
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:05 pm

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby jhonie99 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:32 am

There is only so much any of us can do to protect what should be ours.

Bearing in mind the type of people that you were dealing with, not even a will would have protected you, as they would probably have convinced your partner to change it on her death bed!

You might have ended with an usufruct, but again they would make your life a misery.

I am already in the process of protecting myself in the event of my partner dying before me. But again, it all depends on my OH not been coerced into changing anything at last minute.
Part of my method is a life assurance policy with me as sole beneficiary.

Good luck with your new found freedom.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13130
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby El Cid » Tue May 29, 2012 10:48 am

The issue here is not having a will at all - ie. dying intestate - never a good idea and fundamentally stupid in the case of someone with a terminal illness.

There is no requirement to have a Spanish will - it is just that the paperwork is easier if you do
In this case it appears that there was no will at all which raises all sorts of problems, not least of which is that Spanish succession law will apply and the children will inherit automatically.

A "partner" has no legal status at all unless there is a civil partnership registered.

Even if there was a Spanish will it is possible that the children could contest it under Spanish law and end up with all the money anyway.



Sid

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Tue May 29, 2012 2:19 pm

I agree with El Cid. The children should inherit the house. But, when there is an innocent third party in the middle, some form of recompense (not necessarily financial) must be put in place by law to protect that person or aid in that person being relocated. This is a moral issue and traumatic for the innocent third party.

Bongtrees
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2341
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Valencia

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bongtrees » Wed May 30, 2012 10:02 am

Judith owned outright the bungalow in the UK.

She sold it and purchased a house in Spain.

She never married this man.

By his own admission the writer had a substantial amount of money which he recently offered to use to purchase the property (albeight for half its valuation) pay taxes and move Judiths belongs back to the UK.

Judith had every right to leave the property to whomesoever she wished.

No laws need changing

Fibroids do not turn into cancer.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 6447
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby gerryh » Wed May 30, 2012 10:18 am

Bongtrees wrote:Judith had every right to leave the property to whomesoever she wished.


This is part of the problem.
Yes, Judith had every right to leave the property to whomesoever she wished, BUT she didn't leave a will specifying who she wished to leave it to.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Wed May 30, 2012 10:24 am

Hi Bongtrees. I'm not now too worried about myself because I do have an escape route. It just seems to me to be a Jackboot law, that a couple of signatures can destroy a person's home (not house), relationships, up rooting, psychological issues etc. A squatter, an orchid in a field, a rare snail etc. have protection. An innocent person in this situation has nothing.
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

Bongtrees
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2341
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Valencia

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bongtrees » Wed May 30, 2012 10:37 am

gerryh wrote:
Bongtrees wrote:Judith had every right to leave the property to whomesoever she wished.


This is part of the problem.
Yes, Judith had every right to leave the property to whomesoever she wished, BUT she didn't leave a will specifying who she wished to leave it to.
Cheers
Gerry


Hi Gerry

Judith transferred ownership to a Spanish Ltd Company.

Her children owned shares thus ensuring that the property stayed within her blood family.

She did not need a will, her bank account was empty there was nothing left to bequeath.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Thu May 31, 2012 11:34 am

I have been Googling to see if I can find similar cases, but I can only seem to find Landlord/Tenant issues. I also found no similar cases on Human Rights.
Maybe you guys/gals can help where a third party is involved. I know there are whizz kids in this forum but are they legal? :thumbup:
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13130
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby El Cid » Thu May 31, 2012 11:54 am

Personally I cannot see that you have any case at all.

Sid

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Thu May 31, 2012 12:56 pm

Hi El Cid. That was the answer I was expecting. The legal profession has much to answer for. It is self gratifying, generally with its head in its bank account. It complicates issues so no normal human can understand what the hell is going on. Facts are not considered only the word of law. Tradition and pomp supercedes reality. Humanity has been forgotten on purpose to keep the profession continuing on the road of its own wizardry. I am standing up to be counted, not for myself, but the thousands of others who are being displaced at this moment by laws only favourable to the legal profession and those who can pay. Have a nice day, el cid.
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

User avatar
Devils Advocate
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5017
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:38 pm
Location: Sierra Tejeda and England

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Devils Advocate » Thu May 31, 2012 1:04 pm

It's got nowt to with the legal profession if people don't make wills, it's got even less to do with the legal profession when insects climb out of the woodwork.

There's a saying that goes "where there's a will there's a family".............even with a legit will you can get severe hassles, without a will? well it's just a mess. I'm so sorry to hear of your loss, I really am but I'm struggling to see what your beef is with the legal system or anything else for that matter...........the siblings do sound like grasping little *beep* but I think you're fair game unfortunately.
0-60 in 4 seconds is so yesterday daaaarling.

User avatar
alexander1
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:22 pm
Location: Manilva & Midlands

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby alexander1 » Thu May 31, 2012 1:50 pm

Bongtrees wrote:Fibroids do not turn into cancer.


Are you a specialist Bongtrees?

Taken from the internet: 'Can Fibroids Lead To Cancer?
Edited by Guy Slowik MD FRCS. Last updated on: 03/22/2012

In most women, fibroids do not lead to cancer. Rarely, however, fibroids can turn into a cancer called a leiomyosarcoma. This happens to an estimated 1 in 1,000 women who have fibroids. Some cancerous tumors may develop directly from normal tissue in the uterus. The average age of women with leiomyosarcoma is 55.'

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 11312
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby katy » Thu May 31, 2012 1:52 pm

We only have one side of the story. Had a neighbour in Spain, she was a young looking 55 yr old, comfortably off and her partner was about 40. Her married Daughter and her Son would visit a few times a year. She had a brain tumour, sent home and needed a lot of care. The partner seemed to get bored as a carer and found himself another woman. One day her children arrived from the UK. and threw him out, I thought the B deserved it. I would have done the same had it been my parent. Relatives can be grasping but so can partners! Even when people are dying they are usually of sound mind until the end, perhaps the siblings were doing what she wanted and had been advised to do.

The law is good, problem is the inheritors, or would be ones.

Bongtrees
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2341
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:51 pm
Location: Valencia

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bongtrees » Thu May 31, 2012 2:20 pm

alexander1 wrote:
Bongtrees wrote:Fibroids do not turn into cancer.


Are you a specialist Bongtrees?



No I am not, however I disliked the alarmist way this information was given. Nobody knows who is reading these posts and without googling I wrote what I did. As you say, it is a very rare occurance.

It is regrettable that the OP published intimate details of this womans illness and life. If true the family will be instantly recognisable.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Thu May 31, 2012 3:34 pm

Exactly the reason why I wrote it Bongtrees. Maybe reading your own signature will help you understand.
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

Lavanda
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4044
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Cáceres Province, Extremadura

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:56 am

Blimey! What a story! The answer is have your own income or pension in your own name and get married whenever possible, make a will, get on with your partner/husband/wife's kids and keep calm. Sounds like the OP is better off out of the house and has the means to survive financially without getting constant aggravation from the 'family' — but, when all is said and done it was Judith's house and had she wanted the OP to have a future in it she would have taken the necessary steps ... I think.

User avatar
Bluefish
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:44 pm
Location: Estacion Cortes de la Frontera
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Bluefish » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:47 pm

EVICTION !!!! I received the notice this morning by Correos. I have to be out in 7 days. It states that I have been unreasonable and have damaged the house and not paid the bills. The letter is so full of BS that it could fertilise the whole of Spain. My Abogado now has an email copy and knows how much effort I have put in for a resolution, paying the bills, even employing a cleaner for 3 hours pw.
Have only my 2 cats and a few items to remove anyway. I will be glad to get away from that lot of money grabbing liars.

Is that a proposal, Lavanda ?? :wave:
There are three types of people; those who can count and those who can't

User avatar
Julie
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3533
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:47 pm
Location: Andalucia & Greater Manchester
Contact:

Re: NO Spanish Will? Then please read this

Postby Julie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:14 pm

Hi Bluefish

Sorry to hear your bad news, and I know theres 2 sides to every story, but I also know how horrible people can be where money is concerned, we did horsedrawn funerals for a living before we retired, and believe you me theres nothing that would surprise me after the things people used to tell me, even before their loved ones were buried, lucky for you, you appear to be taking it well, the consolation is, you have your health, there are a lot of people in the cemetery who would love to swop places with you, and just have their health, I hope you soon get settled and move on with your life,
No soporto ver la casa sucia, ahora mismo me levanto y apago la luz.


Return to “You & the Law in Spain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest