online Trading

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frank
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Re: online Trading

Postby frank » Sun May 27, 2012 10:53 pm

Although I'm probably in Division Four (or Southern League!) compared with your Division 0ne, I used to invest on a modest scale myself, and I did OK, however the the last ten years I have handed my very modest sum over to a management company and let them make the decisions. Yes, it costs, but bearing in mind we have been through some troubled times lately, they've done OK for me. Mind you, it's down a big lump from what it was a month or two ago! :thumbdown: When the Footsie was close to 6,000 instead 5,350! Be careful, DA, my BIL fancied himself as an smart investor, cost him dearly! I regard some of these financial experts a bit like racing tipsters, if they are that good, how come they aren't simply investing their money instead of writing for magazines.
Regards, Frank

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Re: online Trading

Postby Devils Advocate » Mon May 28, 2012 7:10 am

Hiya Frank, at present I wish I was up to division 4 standard I can tell you. It's not so much that I want to earn a fortune from this, it's more a case of learning the ropes......a new hobby if you like and a bit of fun at the same time. It has intrigued me how these things work......your comment about the FTSE at 6000 v 5300 for instance..............some ISAs we have reflect that and have dropped or stayed stagnant when the market dips but some seem to climb through thick and thin, that baffles me, although I know (maybe mistakenly) that's maybe to do with the risk the fund managers take. So in essence I've decided with OHs blessing to make a humble start by withdrawing some of the none achieving investments and go it alone............however it's like the place in Spain, if we couldn't afford to lose it we wouldn't have bought it............big risks are for the big boys,not me, I like to stay in my comfort zone.

So anyway my imaginary pot is 400 quid up in one week........not bad for an hour or 3 online :D ........problem is I wouldn't know what do with it now, draw it out or leave it in? :think:

My big problem is still understanding the terms,lingo and wording used. Some great sites have been forwarded by posters here which are brilliant. My problem is I only know how to buy shares..............theres always about 10 other buttons and tabs with other investment thingies on them which I simply don't understand. I really need someone who knows what's what to sit with me for a day and go through it in laymans terms. Plus when you watch the financial programmes on CNN where they go through the list of "movers".....I've never heard of any of them, how do you find them then? And I've still not found a way yet to practice this "spread bet thing"...........nope, I'm a while away yet from investing for real but still trying to pick it up :thumbup:

And again chaps.........many thanks for all the links on this thread (and the ones kindly PM'd) they are all saved and being swotted upon.

Cheers

PS Would still love to hear from others having a go.
0-60 in 4 seconds is so yesterday daaaarling.

frank
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Re: online Trading

Postby frank » Mon May 28, 2012 8:20 am

[quote="Devils Advocate"]

So anyway my imaginary pot is 400 quid up in one week........not bad for an hour or 3 online :D ........problem is I wouldn't know what do with it now, draw it out or leave it in? :think:

.[/quote]

I can always pick the winner of the 2.30 at Kempton, until I actually put some real money on it! :lolno: Enjoy your new hobby, it can be very depressing at times mind, seeing your dosh vanishing down the plughole. :D
Trading can be risky, but I'm sure you're sensible enough not to risk money you can't afford to lose, and you've chosen probably the worse time to dabble in shares, the financial world is in turmoil out there!
Regards, Frank

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Re: online Trading

Postby Devils Advocate » Mon May 28, 2012 8:35 am

I've never even tried to pick a winner at Kempton Frank so you've got the advantage there :D

I guess if I could manage to learn the ropes whilst the market is dire than it may just stand me in good stead when it picks up a little. As I said in my previous post the Fidelity ISAs just climb all the time whilst others flounder, so they must be doing something right, or are the others missing a trick?. No big deal really either way for me............my main goal is to understand how it all works as it's something I've just never even thought about until this year. Some things you find your good at, others you don't........I'd like to see where I stand with this one.
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Re: online Trading

Postby katy » Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 am

We started with a sum and took out the profits. We were doing very well (some weeks £800) then 9/11 happened and the initial investment dropped about 60%! We did not panic and sell and within a couple of years they were back with a plus. Most of the profits I made last year was buying and selling bank shares, when they dropped I bought and within a few days they would be back up. Don't really take notice of newspaper tips, do it as a fun thing, but we have now earned more than the initial investment so if it crashes so be it.

Never done spread betting.

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Re: online Trading

Postby Technobear » Mon May 28, 2012 11:16 pm

k, a few things asked
price history, most websites include this including yahoo, and also if you have a broker account that site will also have tools ... Privately i use ameritrade for US stocks, but i guess all hve similar tools

Movers, again broker sites will have news/suggestions, also investing sites like fool.com- they also have info about all stocks including news history, financial reports and other info. Of couse the FT also has info for UK stocks and fund information (some things are only on certain days)
But think 'laterally' , if you invest according to tips, you are behind the curve... eg price has already risen, and might be ready to fall... eg if you see intel has manufacturing issues, who will gain?

Short selling - basically, if you think a stock is going to fall, you short it, then buy it back when it has fallen... note: you HAVE to buy even if price rises, then you lose money. Incurs fees.
(short sell gets bad press, but essential to ensure liquidity in falling markets, not every one is an optimist :))

Options, bit complex to explain on forum... but you buying (or selling ... very dangerous) option to buy(call) or sell(put) something at a price in the future.
Ex. Imagine X is trading at 100 today. (X is called the 'underlying').
You can buy a CALL option to buy at 102 (strike) next month (expiry)
Next month arrives...
Scenario a) price of X is now 110... Your option is 'in the money', you can 'exercise' the option and make money, since you buy at 102 and can sell immediately at 110!
Scecario b) price of X is now 101, your option is worthless, why buy at 102 when you can buy at 101!

the reason options are popular is you are trading thr difference in prices, ie whilst a share in apple is trading at around $600, its options are much cheaper ... (back to that term 'leverage' , ie getting more trading risk/reward for your $1)

(note: in reality you dont usually get the underlying and have to sell, you just are given the financial gain)

Options trade at a price that is determined by current price vs strike, and where if the market thinks it will be in the money at expiry (and how much). So you can trade the option, before it expires and make money still.

Option trading is more risky, and usually brokers require collateral or 'assurances' for trading, its usually not enabled by default.

There are also sorts of other derivative products, but i dont think you'll be able to get an opportuni to trade.

You mention '10 buttons' not sure if you are talking about different order types (limit/stop), trade (eg options) or different asset classes (stock, fx, govt bonds, etc)

Finally id echo what someone else said, trading with your own cash is very different from playing virtual money - pshycology comes into play ... Very easy to dump a virtual stock thats lost you virtual money, many find it alot harder with real cash ( they hope it turns around) ... even pros suffer from this to some extent.

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Re: online Trading

Postby Chunky Monky » Mon May 28, 2012 11:59 pm

Hi Technobear,

Excellent explanation of terms etc.

Being somebody with some experience in these matters, in your opinion, do you think it is more difficult to make money trading at the moment or doesn't it really matter?

George Soros seems to do well in the downturns.

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Re: online Trading

Postby Technobear » Tue May 29, 2012 11:39 pm

Rising markets are easier for private investors, as we dont tend to short sell ... Ie we are looking for something to gain value. Also for stocks, it could be all prices fall (unlikey long term) as people reduce investments.

But there are always opportunities,
if the EUR is falling, where the cash is going USD, CHF, JPY? Once you decide, then you can invest accordingly.
Similarly in shares, are things being overly devalued In short term (markets have a tendancy to overreact!) ... Is nokia really dead? Can santander recover? (perhaps in long term view, there current troubles are just blips... Or perhaps not :))
Also if europe decides on an investment led recovery... who will get that euro/govt cash?

So i think when you are in recession, there are bargains to be had, but its likely you wont be able (or want) to cash in until things are on the up! Think i said in first post long term investment is generally advisable :)

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Re: online Trading

Postby Devils Advocate » Wed May 30, 2012 11:10 am

Out of interest Techno, how do you see the Facebook shares...............sub 29 yesterday. At what point would you be taking a punt if you were ever to invest in them?
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Re: online Trading

Postby Technobear » Wed May 30, 2012 1:42 pm

Im not going to give stock tips, dangerous waters :)

Facebook is interesting, and good article on reuters http://goo.gl/XPmFr

Ipo's have a tendancy to create overreaction, often leading to bug gains on first few days/weeks, because people (the masses) buy as they like company, but dont think about fundamentals too much.
( the reason for rises, is underwriter sets price so they are not undersubscribed, so theorectically are a tad undervalued)


Facebook, was the expected to do the same BUT then it was reported perhaps was overvalued ( due lack of advertising on mobile platforms) and so it plummeted,
whats interesting is this 'new insight' was not new at all, and goes to show the 'herd' mentality... many 'panicked' and sold.
what i like about the reuters artcle is it shows how you can 'potentially' use the options market, to see where the market thinks the price is heading ... ( of course option prices change, so that view is also subject to change)

So where does that leave us?
- underlying issue, revenue from mobile platforms... Do you think facebook can overcome, and create imcome stream (ads or another model?).... Remember they have a hugh ad base, hence the initial optimism
- valuation, look at the market capitilisation vs other companies (apple , google) , is it 'fair' ? What would the share price have to be fair?

Answering the above (and im sure a few other questions) and you will know if you want to buy!
(also again, id urge you to think long term, this could be a blip , or not :) )


Personally i avoid ipos initially, as they tend to be volatile, with little reason, whilst the market tries to find the real market value.

I do wonder if people will be a bit more cautious with ipo in the future, its true initial ipos often do very well, but now with a high profile case going down, perhaps people will think twice?

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Re: online Trading

Postby katy » Wed May 30, 2012 2:59 pm

I don't think I would ever by f/book shares. Most financial pages were saying don't buy months ago. I buy companies that have had (to my thinking) a blip, bit of bad news etc. When BP spilt the oil in the Gulf I bought at 298 (approx) and sold around 420 as I thought they were bound to recover.

Does anyone do currency trading? Some guys at golf club started, don't know how they did. I think Beachy said he dabbled a bit. Personally I wouldn't touch it heard of people being wiped out overnight.

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Re: online Trading

Postby Devils Advocate » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:09 am

So go on then, pee on my chips.......who stuck a shed load on Bankia shares last week? :(
:D
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Re: online Trading

Postby katy » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:54 am

If they did I would get rid of them this morning. I do think there was a bit of hanky panky on the spanish stock market last week. Shares were going up whilst the rest of europes were down. On Friday spanish stocks rose 1.83% including bankia...I don't suppose it was Rajoy informing investor cronies what was going to happen...he wouldn't have done that would he :lolno:

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Re: online Trading

Postby annfoto » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:45 pm

I would get rid of any Spanish equity today. Rajo was right not to call it a Bailout with 10 year bonds now at 6.47% it was a Failout :thumbdown:
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Re: online Trading

Postby Dr1Gonzo » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:17 pm

katy wrote:I don't think I would ever by f/book shares. Most financial pages were saying don't buy months ago. I buy companies that have had (to my thinking) a blip, bit of bad news etc. When BP spilt the oil in the Gulf I bought at 298 (approx) and sold around 420 as I thought they were bound to recover.

Does anyone do currency trading? Some guys at golf club started, don't know how they did. I think Beachy said he dabbled a bit. Personally I wouldn't touch it heard of people being wiped out overnight.


You can get wiped out overnight but that's people who don;t know what they're doing, which is most of them. TBH, you can get wiped out share trading as well if you use leverage and don;t know what you're doing. It's like anything, spend a few years doing it and you'll have learned the ropes but those who use real money at the beginning soon get their lesson.

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Re: online Trading

Postby Chunky Monky » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:47 pm

Hi DA,

Hope you didn't have any shares in Barclays! :lol:


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