BBC2 today

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katy
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BBC2 today

Postby katy » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:25 pm

Victoria Derbyshire show had a discussion on EU. One woman was a Spaniard who has lived in the UK for 15 years, said she paid tax and NI. Another pro EU butted in and said yes, unlike thousands of Brits who sit in their retirement homes on the costa del Sol and contribute nothing to Spain :shock: no one got the chance to put him straight! Worth watching if you can. Suzanne from UKIP was excellent.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby ajtg1952 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:31 pm

I think it's a well known fact that the majority of expats do not pay any income tax to Spain.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby gerryh » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:57 pm

If that is true then I am in the minority.
I live in Spain and pay my income , and all other relevant taxes, here in Spain.
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olive
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby olive » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:14 pm

I too pay my taxes here. It would be interesting to see how many Brits do pay their way. It is eroneous to say they don't contribute anything to Spain. Isn't there tax on utilities and food and road fuel ?

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby markwilding » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:28 pm

So do I,
It's very easy to generalize. I'm sure there are some ex-pats who avoid paying income tax in Spain and some EU migrants doing the same in the UK. Just like you Katy, I get indignant when locals here tell me myths regarding EU foreigners, which I know to be incorrect such as Brits coming over on the ferry and heading straight to the hospital to get treatment, which the Spanish believe is paid for by the Spanish health service.

There is also the great myth that many EU nationals go to Britain. not to work but to receive benefits. They aren't entitled to anything for the first three months anyway.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby chrissiehope » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:27 pm

I'm not even an expat, and I still pay tax to Spain (Renta) :angel:
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby TorreDelAguila » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:54 pm

It is, in any case, extremely difficult to "contribute nothing to Spain", unless you avoid eating, drinkng, shopping, travel and a roof over your head. Unhelpful generalization.
Might be helpful, though, if the tax authorities in both our countries managed to collect a few more of the taxes actually due, from both individuals and companies. But then who told them not to?
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby ChrisM » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:50 pm

markwilding wrote:
There is also the great myth that many EU nationals go to Britain. not to work but to receive benefits. They aren't entitled to anything for the first three months anyway.


Not quite: I manage a large GP surgery and a very recent NHS England directive has reiterated that anyone turning up to register as a patient should be allowed to do so without the need to prove ID or residency. The only exception is that if we do ask for ID/residency, we must do so for all new patients to avoid claims of discrimination. The NHS logic is that we are not the border police and if they are in the UK, get on with it.

I would add that all the Spaniards I know in my area are hard-working and pay their dues to society.
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby Miro » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:53 pm

Even the Latvian tramp outside the supermarket downstairs from me contributes to the Spanish economy. Although any and all money he is given goes straight into the (Chinese) supermarket to buy (German) beer, it does include IVA of course, which goes to the (Spanish) government! :D
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby patricia » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:20 pm

Well when I go to my Gestoria it is full of people from the UK sorting out their tax returns so I don´t know where the idea is of Brits not paying tax comes from.
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby Lyric » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:31 pm

Well it probably comes from the many that I, and I'm sure others, know that don't pay any direct taxes and are proud of it, I want to bubble them but won't of course.
But then it's not just the ex pats is it, there are many natives that don't pay tax, or as much as they should. I've just had an abogado give me a healthy discount for cash, therefore no tax.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby patricia » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:12 pm

Yes you have that Lyric, I never get a bill it is all cash, I do not know how they manage with everyone being paid cash and no one making out invoices, but I am just saying that people who live here and who are retired pay their taxes I do not know of any who do not. I do know however the workman who are mostly Spanish I have used and it has all been cash and no invoice.

Lets face it even in the UK we try to reduce our tax even though we cannot get away without paying it and now it certainly isnt possible here in Spain to get away without paying tax although again you can reduce it with one thing and another.

As far as I am concerned I would rather have workman who issue an invoice´s because if you have major work done at least you can call them back in if things go wrong.
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby Unicorn » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:32 pm

Hi

I have been paying taxes, or filing a tax return, since I have been here, much to the derision of some other expats. It did, however, pay off when the law changed vis a vis healthcare for the non retired three years ago. Although I have Sanitas it is a relief to have the back-up of the excellent state system. Particularly for the drugs if, God forbid, I get anything really nasty.
Anecdotally I hear that they are tightening up on use of the EHIC (is it called?) and questioning 'non' residents. How common that is I have no idea.

And now we have the EU referendum to look forward to ...................

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby TorreDelAguila » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:51 pm

Somebody did say that evading taxes was a hobby in Spain, but a way of life in Greece . . . and look what happened there.

Things are tightening up in Spain, but slowly. At least, now, any payment to a company or professional of €2000 or more must be made in non-cash, so that there is a trail for it. Of course, large purchases can simply be broken down into small chunks.

Ever wondered why stationery stores here are piled high with Invoice pads, all unprinted and anonymous, and un-numbered?

Doesn't stop dodgy builders, etc putting their businesses (and their houses and other assets) in their wives' names, so, when taken to court, there's nothing to sue.

Left to their own devices, only those with any sort of social conscience (plus a few others with understandable self-interest) will pay their taxes. It really is the social duty of governments to make sure that tax collection is efficient and thorough. Shame, then, that even in the UK someone has obviously told HMRC to do 'special deals' with a number of individuals and companies - completely illegal, and something only the Select Committee seems to have any interest in challenging.

One set of rules for the rich, another set for the rest of us! Think carefully at the ballot box.
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby olive » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:04 pm

There was a very good five minutes on Spain on Euronews this a.m. "living without work" from Jerez. One of the Spaniards said he thought black money work was about 30% of the population in that area.

We were talking about this earlier and concluded that the State knows full well it and my hobby horse of voluntary IVa on building materials, car servicing etc and factors it in to receipts and forecasting.

Don't forget any country has a raft of big earners that avoid taxes (your Googles, Costas and so on) as well as the little people working on the black. The easy targets are the middle of the road folk - PAYE type people.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby ashtondav » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:36 pm

Most self employed tradesmen in spain operate under a cash payment system for 60% t0 70% of their earnings. Just like in the UK.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby Nimrod » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:20 pm

I must say that in my 67 years no tradesman has ever asked me for a cash payment in the UK.
Asking the tradesman for it is a different matter and they sometimes do succumb!
I very much doubt the majority of UK tradesmen derive 70% of their income from cash..... the UK tax system, albeit inefficient, is still more efficient than the Spanish system

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby patricia » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:43 pm

No I agree it is not the same as in the UK at all. It is a way of life here in Spain. Expect crap workmanship if you do pay black money.
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Re: BBC2 today

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:52 am

ashtondav wrote:Most self employed tradesmen in spain operate under a cash payment system for 60% to 70% of their earnings. Just like in the UK.


I very much doubt it, that's like saying that most declare that they are only working 3 months of the year..yet manage to survive and pay the mortgage/rent bills etc..If my 0TH sent his accounts in and declared just 30-40% of his earnings the tax office would be all over him and to be honest most accountants wouldn't want anything to do with it because none relish a reputation of having clients under a tax investigation.

As for tradesmen in Spain? how do they justify it on their tax forms? don't they have to pay around 300euros each month when they are self employed? that's a tidy sum at the end of a year plus living and working expenses..and all out of 3 months declared earnings..If the tax office in Spain dosen't smell a rat then its quite beyond belief.

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Re: BBC2 today

Postby TorreDelAguila » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:17 am

Folk I know here, and who are involved in running small trade businesses, self-employed or otherwise, all say that providing you submit and pay a meaningful annual tax sum, you are unlikely to be chased by Spanish tax authorities. Put this on the back of almost non-existent and un-numbered invoices, and payments largely in cash, and it's a tough job for the authorities to chase. Submit a nil return (nil profits) and you will be chased, though.

An appalling system, with consequences for us all.
Chris


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