What effect on us if GB leaves the EU?

[katy]

I guess Katy knows best, obviously not a full time resident so it matters little to you.

Yes, I don't have any axes to grind

[markwilding]

The problem with you Katy is you see conspiracy and self interest where ever you look.
You can't seem to understand that some might just have a different opinion than you with no strings attached.

So the Devil you know is my philosophy.

That's exactly what most pro EU people are saying and has been said by various posters including Girlingfoss. 'A leap into the darkness' were the words used.

[katy]

Well my thread in Amigos is called 'a leap into the light'.

Seems you don't want discussion, no mention of the sterling analysis I posted, just personal stuff and rants about little Englanders. If you want to discuss stop getting rude and personal like Girlingfloss.

There is an unknown element to leaving but there is also an unknown element to what the new Europe will be like too. Probably people have noticed that the Eurozone has not done as well as the UK. Only this week Spain, France and Italy etc. Were warned about budgetary control. In fact Spain's public sector debt rose to 99.7% last year. To control this there has to be 'more Europe' as it is the only way to control a single currency. If it is all hunky dory over the channel why did another 630,000 EU citizens come to the UK to live last year? Surely not for the weather or cheap housing

[detourer]

Katy.........."Surely not for the weather or cheap housing"

Actually yes...........

[markwilding]

If you want to discuss stop getting rude and personal like Girlingfloss.

C'mon Katy. Stop complaining about rudeness. Girlingfloss hasn't been rude.

Seems you don't want discussion, no mention of the sterling analysis I posted, just personal stuff and rants about little Englanders.. If it is all hunky dory over the channel why did another 630,000 EU citizens come to the UK to live last year? Surely not for the weather or cheap housing

What's the point when you come up figures that are incorrect. Total immigration was 200,00 less than your figure
-Includes all immigration
-is not net immigration.
-Does not take into account British Citizens returning to the UK.
-Doe's not take into account people leaving the UK-

There is an unknown element to leaving but there is also an unknown element to what the new Europe will be like too. Probably people have noticed that the Eurozone has not done as well as the UK. Only this week Spain, France and Italy etc. Were warned about budgetary control. In fact Spain's public sector debt rose to 99.7% last year. To control this there has to be 'more Europe' as it is the only way to control a single currency

This is irrelevant as the UK is not in the single currency and one of the concessions is that Britain cannot be forced into further integration. We are also being told today that contrary to Michael Gove's opinion, it is legally binding and cannot be reversed unless all EU countries agree, including the UK, so unless the UK does a complete U turn, we won't be joining the EURO any time soon.

[katy]

If you broadened your reading you would have seen yesterday a piece from Brussels with about 6 Foreign MEPs all stating the so called concessions are reversible. Matters not to me as I don't see any value in them anyway, they are meaningless hype.

The figures for how many EU citizens can be manipulated how they fancy but the fact is 630,000 EU citizens applied for an NI number in 9 months last year.

[Girlingfoss]

It seems the thread has got somewhat off topic I thin the following from the Viva blog might be of interest as it does show the advantages to Brits in Spain of the EU.
http://www.yourviva.com/blog/2016/02/25/five-ways-the-eu-benefits-brits-in-spain/

[Pamela1]

The ordinary people will decide..not the politicians or Boris whoever... as for the media..depending on what paper you buy or read..they are all dangerous..just interested in making money on the back of it all..however they do sway people and that's one of the reasons why i hope the government gives us all the balanced clear facts of the implications of an in or out...its the future of our children..our grandchildren..i for one see an out as a step backwards..we are small fish in a very big pond and we will either sink or swim...i hope we keep swimming no matter how people vote..

By the way. this forum would be boring without Katy...whether you agree with her or disagree she certainly is an asset...

[masterob]

Girlingfoss, the link you posted above is to an Estate Agency trying to flog houses in Spain. Of course they are going to put their spin on this.

As I wrote previously, voters in the UK are simply not going to even think about Brits who have upped sticks and moved to live elsewhere in Europe and why should they! This is about the sovereignty and right for us Brits living in the UK to decide our future. As much as you may wish it's not about Brit immigrants living Overseas. I understand the concern of those who have moved to Europe but, as others have said, whatever the outcome I doubt if there will be any significant changes to their lifestyles. Again, as others have said, people moved to Spain and elsewhere long before the EU became into being.

[masterob]

Pamela1, you shouldn't play down the importance of the UK and its ability to survive in the larger world. That is exactly what Project Fear being pushed by the "remainers" want you to think! They downplay the future of the EU which is already on shaky ground - euro finances, immigrants pouring in but Borders being closed etc etc. One thing I would suggest is that were the UK to leave it wouldn't be long before the EU as it is now, disintegrates, what then?

[Pamela1]

Then we will all go back to how it was before the EU...but will we?

[Tala Orchard]

I seem to remember that this all happened back in 1975, all this once and for all being spouted at the time and there would be no turning back after that referendum. But here we are 40years and a bit later going over old ground I voted in back then and will do so again and at the end of the day we shall remain with in the EU.

[Girlingfoss]

Girlingfoss, the link you posted above is to an Estate Agency trying to flog houses in Spain. Of course they are going to put their spin on this.

So it is all rubbish then? I read the question at the start of the thread was "What effect on us if GB leaves the UK" referring I thought to expats in Spain, The blog regardless of the motives raises that question.

[laswalkirias60]

Because the majority of Acomers have adhered to the laws in Spain and respected the local customs,I do not think that any residents should fear to much about any brexit from UK
Unlike the UK, you have not been allowed to bring hordes of children into Spain and be provided council housing and benefits,and i dont sense much hostity from Spanish people towards the Brits as you have always had to pay your way
By and large you have not had a large foothold in the unskilled job market in Spain, and have not been responsible for a downward pressure on local wage rates, unlike the free for all here in UK.
No,matter what politicians and individuals say about the long term a advantages to the UK economy of remaining within the EU, when you and your children cant afford to put a roof over your head because large scale ,uncontrolled immigration reduces the need for employers to pay decent wages and consequently puts everyones job security in UK at risk, even a pro EU idealist like me realizes that i have to vote against my principles and vote to leave!!!
I have seen my place of work been taken over by cheap contract workers form all over the EU and have no chance of any payrise in the future because of this
As for young people in UK ever having the chance to buy a home here,those days have gone
For the UK, despite polite peoples denials in public, the argurment boils down to Immigration (uncontrolled) and its effect upon the job market here

[markwilding]

Most EU citizens go to the UK to work. Most commentators say that the David Cameron's new rules actually will affect very few of them.

Spain has had it's fair share of immigration. It is the choice for most Romanians,who are the highest ethnic group from the EU. Plenty of illegal immigration from Latin America as well as North Africa.

large scale immigration from the UK has had an effect on Southern Spain. Pressure on the infrastructure is one and it helped to push house prices up. That doesn't mean that they haven't benefited as well.

These are some of the negatives regarding EU membership but there many advantages, which in the end outweigh the disadvantages.

[laswalkirias60]

Dearest Mark, dont you understand the reason for my post, I want to vote to remain,however,no matter how logical your argurments are for UK in EU,there is a huge working class resentment in our towns and cities against huge numbers of unskilled labour from Europe displacing local jobs,putting enormous pressure on housing and playing right into the argurments of the far right who are whipping up hatred and racism,that I fear will lead to violence on the streets of UK before too long
If the vast majority of young people in some of our towns feel that they are competing with EU migrants to UK for badly paid jobs and massive pressure in the housing sector,they will see that politicians,and,I dont meam to be rude, that people like you have no idea of what is happening on the ground here in UK

Its scary, very scary

If the price of economic prosperity leads to breakdown of social cohesion within UK, then its not a price the vast majority of people are willing to pay, no matter how irrational that may be.

When I meet elderly people living in relative prosperity cursing and openly espousing hatred towards EU immigrants, then there is a problem that any reasoned argument will fail to get through to the vast majority of people who are selfish and will vote to leave!!!!
its very very sad and regrettable,however most people dont want to wait until the machinations of the EU are sorted out, they want jobs and homes now in the UK and the poor EU workers arriving in UK are being scapegoted for the failings our pooliticians to listen to the rabble!!!!!

[markwilding]

And they are the first to say the outs are using the fear factor when UKIP and the like have been doing the same for years
Anyway, we will see in June.

[katy]

Most EU citizens go to the UK to work. Most commentators say that the David Cameron's new rules actually will affect very few of them.

Spain has had it's fair share of immigration. It is the choice for most Romanians,who are the highest ethnic group from the EU. Plenty of illegal immigration from Latin America as well as North Africa.

large scale immigration from the UK has had an effect on Southern Spain. Pressure on the infrastructure is one and it helped to push house prices up. That doesn't mean that they haven't benefited as well.

These are some of the negatives regarding EU membership but there many advantages, which in the end outweigh the disadvantages.

Seen the latest benefit figures for foreigners in UK Mark? Not to mention the tax credits. Spain may have it's fair share of immigration but they don't actually get any benefits do they. As for large scale immigration from the UK putting strain on Southern Spain's infrastructure, they more or less paid for it, along with the EU who paid for all the motorways and the AVE.

Yes, there are negatives with the EU. So many the remainers and the outers seem to have consensus on that. The difference is do we want to play the battered wife or stand up for ourselveslves.

[markwilding]

These daft examples might work with you but not me
The United Kingdom is not a battered wife which is too afraid to go it alone.
If your going to use metaphors.
The blind leading the Blind.

[markwilding]

Seen the latest benefit figures for foreigners in UK Mark? Not to mention the tax credits. Spain may have it's fair share of immigration but they don't actually get any benefits do they..

Back to that again.
UK citizens are entitled to benefits in Spain. The rules are different here but they apply to both EU and Spanish citizens alike.
Basically, you must have paid a year's contributions to be eligible.

The reason people's entitlements are different in the two countries is not down to the EU but the individual countries laws.