Solution needed residency + BREXIT

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elscouser
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Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby elscouser » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:19 pm

So we have bought our place a few years ago and we are in our early 30s - The plan has always been to move over but we wanted to do it properly and get some money behind us first. Brexit threw a spanner in the works and March 2019 is now a sticking point - we are not prepared to risk our move to Spain because of this. However I am looking at options of gaining 'residency' before this potential cut off date

Is it an option to sign on to the patron and go through the process and register as residents without actually being in Spain every day? We are there every 6 weeks or so. If employment etc is questioned couldn't we just say that we have lived on savings?!! (for the time between now and whenever we OFFICIALLY move over

Thanks in advance for your support

El Cid
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:27 pm

There is no reason why you cannot sign on the foreigner register at any time. However, you will need proof of income and also proof that you have full private medical insurance valid in Spain.

The income requirement varies from office to office. Sometimes a lump sum in the bank is enough or even just owning a property. A credit card balance available of over €6000 may be accepted.

If you can meet the requirements, then it would be a smart move to do it now.

Sid

olive
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby olive » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:23 pm

I can't argue with El cid saying if you meet the requirements then it would be a smart move to do it now.

Some considerations. You go to the policia and tell them that from x date you are now resident. i.e. you have been here 90 days. You have a wadge of papers to show you have the necessary to "live " in Spain. Health cover (which you will have to actually shell out good money for). Savings in the bank, regular income perhaps? then you can go to the local council and register on the padron.

What next? You pay tax in Spain on your earnings. How does PAYE in UK work regarding tax assuming you have a job? Any inheritence is liable for tax on in Spain. UK gets advised you are no longer a UK resident? maybe it is more straightforward than I imagine?

elusive
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby elusive » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:41 pm

What about having to pay tax twice.do everything legit interms of becoming resident and you will have to file tax returns and pay taxes as a resident even though you arent. ontop of paying tax in the uk And as mentioned above and 720 declarations etc etc. Maybe its me but it could get complicated

Tbh what difference will it make anyway? Who knows.if you have money behind you and own a property i hardly doubt they will refuse you the right to live here further down the road.its not like you O.A.P and are worried about healthcare as an under O.A.P age you get nothing anyway.Saying you are a resident when not and what comes with that would bother me more than worrying what might or might not be after brexit. But thats just me
Last edited by elusive on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

El Cid
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:43 pm

Just because you sign on the register does not make you tax resident. It merely gives you the right to stay for more than 90 days. You can go to and fro to the UK and so long as you do not exceed 183 days in one calendar year you are not tax resident.

Conversely you could be deemed tax resident but not require to sign on the register if you stays in Spain were never more than 90 days but you still exceeded 183 days in total.

Signing on the Padrol is more complicated as you are only allowed to sign on if your "habitual" residence is in the locality. If it is your "habitual" residence that that would qualify you as being tax resident by definition.

Confusing? Surely not, this is Spain!

Sid

elusive
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby elusive » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:48 pm

Yeah it certainly is confusing but imo the common sense (yeah i know this is spain!!) Is that you only sign on the resident lists if you intend to make spain your home. No one who comes here for 5 months over the winter gets their residencia because they arent making spain their habitual residence as they are on hols.if you get residencia then sign on the padron then its obvious to me what your intention is and if hacienda come sniffing then good luck.

BENIDORM
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby BENIDORM » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:55 pm

elscouser,
May I suggest another way.
If you are a married couple and both working ? you could register one person in Spain and conform to all of the current legal obligations, the other would continue in UK as normal.
This should enable you to have a legal 'foot' in both countries.
Obviously every persons situations and requirements are different, but the above may assist you.

Many years ago I did exactly the above, we had business interests in both countries and rather than complicate matters we found that it worked, I know that some legislation may have changed, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for you.
I would avoid making any false statements.
I hope this idea helps you.
Regards,
Gordon

El Cid
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:00 pm

If your spouse is tax resident in Spain, then you mayalso be deemed to be tax resident as the centre of your interests is in Spain. That is what it says in the relevant tax law, so be warned if you try this route.

Sid

BENIDORM
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby BENIDORM » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:30 pm

El Cids observations could be correct but we didn't have any problem with the method that I suggested.

I do also know other people who do exactly what I've suggested at the present time and as far as I'm aware they are quite legally entitled to have separate 'working and taxation' lives, creative options are always worth investigating, in my opinion.

Anyway Good Luck !

Regards,
Gordon

El Cid
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby El Cid » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:50 pm

If you have income arising in the UK (unless it is potentially exempt like pensions) is taxable in the UK irrespective of tax residency, which means it is easy to end up paying tax on the same income in both countries (however you can usually offset one against the other). It is also possible to be tax resident in both countries as UK tax residency rules mean that if you spend more than 90 days in the UK ( and possibly even less), you will be UK tax resident. If you also meet the Spanish 183 day rule (or centre of interest rule) you will also be tax resident in Spain.

Sid

elscouser
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby elscouser » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:51 pm

Thanks very much guys. For info we are teachers at the moment so paye would be a bit of a problem. We intend to continue working until we make the move.....

BENIDORM
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby BENIDORM » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:53 am

Elscouser,
As you are probably aware, if you ask 10 people the same question you will probably receive 10 different answers and maybe you will be able to glean the correct information by using all of the various segments to fit your own personal requirements.
During my life I've been faced with many problems and made many mistakes so I favour the slow and methodical approach to all, I think that maybe I was a Tibetan Monk in a former life. :D

So Glass-opper, I would suggest that you walk like a blind man and use a long stick to probe in front of you, using this method you will hopefully avoid falling down any holes. :lol:
Regards,
Gordon

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Enrique
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby Enrique » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:13 am

Benidorm.......nice balanced way to look at Spain.

escouser one option open is to look at getting a Non-Resident Temporary stay in Spain from 90 days up to 183 so you keep your tax status in UK.

"Certificado De Registro De Ciudadano De La Unión" .........this is a Green form, you will be registered with Police, its useful for doing various transactions where they used to ask for NIE

You will as Non-Resident need to be registered with AEAT for Non-Resident Tax on your property ..Modelo 210 AKA Form 210

So you see "they" will have records of your interest in Spain and when the time comes look favourably on your getting Residencia status.

" we are in our early 30s"..........so a good 20 years at the pit face to look forward to before you move........... 8)
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

elscouser
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Re: Solution needed residency + BREXIT

Postby elscouser » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:03 am

Again, great advice thank you

I think more likely that we will be over within the next 3 years for good but don't want to unnecessarily rush towards the march 19 'deadline'!


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