Ryanair landings

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Stevemul
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Ryanair landings

Postby Stevemul » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:27 pm

After a few day's rest from the forum I caught up with some topics tonight!
The deviation from the "Ryanair cancellation of flights" topic re landings caught my eye so I've started a new thread on the subject.

I had a discussion about a year ago with an Easyjet pilot on the subject of landing modern planes.I should add that I completed 38 hours of a Private Pilot's licence training some years ago including a number of solo flights. I only stopped on medical advice as I had a tendency towards vertigo.

I asked why pilots did not now "flare" when landing. Flaring is bringing the nose of the aircraft up slightly just before contact of the wheels so that the rear wheels make contact first and therefore the wing angle together with the flaps act as an air brake and the aircraft "floats" to a soft landing.

He said that modern aircraft are not designed to do this. Their training is now to literally "fly" the aircraft into the runway and use the aircraft brakes and reverse thrust to slow the aircraft.

I assume that this is part of the dumbing down of everything nowadays to remove the human element. A computer can fly an airplane straight into the runway as well as a human can. Flaring takes skill!

ajtg1952
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby ajtg1952 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:18 pm

My experience is that the majority of aircraft flare on landing. Landing is all about stalling the airflow over the wings and this requires flaring. How well it's done is another matter all together and there are a lot of inexperienced pilots out there.

A very good friend of mine is a senior captain with Virgin Atlantic flying A340's. He is ex RAF have done three years with the Red Arrows. He claims never to have had a hard landing, no matter the weather, and says it is wholly down to experience of the pilot flying. He flies here from Gatwick every month with EasyJet and he claims he knows how the landing will be just by the quality of the takeoff and how long it is before the autopilot is engaged. There is a First officer with EasyJet who apparently flies the aircraft to 20,000 feet by hand before letting the computer take over.

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Paulinmalaga
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby Paulinmalaga » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:50 pm

Even when Autoland is deployed flaring occurs.

mijasdavid
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby mijasdavid » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:16 pm

Good afternoon.

I am not sure that this forum is the best place to discuss these subjects. They can be quite complex and it is important to get one's facts right.

Stevemul.
What job/title does your easyJet friend have? I have never come across a commercial pilot flying modern jet aircraft that does not flare an aircraft on landing. If you don't you sure as hell won't achieve a smoooth landing and will have a very good chance of damaging the nose wheels.
Flaps do not act as an airbrake - they change the shape of the wing and allow you to fly slower and generate more lift. If you want to slow down in flight and/or kill all of the lift on the wing as you touch down, then you would deploy the Spoilers - in fact normally, these will autodeploy on touchdown.
To say that modern aircraft are not designed to be flared on landing is with all due respect nonsense.


Atg1952

So this friend of your at Virgin Atlantic can tell ' how the landing will be' just by judging the takeoff and how long the autopilot is engaged. He must be psychic. Inhad to smile when I read that. He says he had never done a heavy landing, well I wish I could say that. I imagine that as he flies the A340 for Virgin that he doesn't complete too many landings per month anyway. By the way, is his name James T Kirk?
Handflying an aircraft up to 20,000ft is no big deal and is quite common. Most people do a lot of 'hand-flying' just before their 6monthly flying tests. They also do it to keep their hand in and for fun.


What I really wanted to say, is that what some people say after drinking four pints of Guiness or whatever, is not always the most objective or reliable of information.


Regards

David

mijasdavid
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby mijasdavid » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:19 pm

Paulinmalaga

Absolutely agree with you.


David

Stevemul
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby Stevemul » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:13 pm

I do think you get a better class of insult on this forum.
I also thought that a forum was a platform for discussion rather than disparaging remarks.
I was only outlining what was said during a discussion with a currently working pilot. If you disagree with what was said, that's fine but there's no need to shoot the messenger.

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costakid
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby costakid » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:46 pm

mijasdavid, love it. I reckon half of these so called pilot friends fly kites. HA HA. Tongue in cheek.

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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby mijasdavid » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:14 pm

Costakid.
Cheers for that. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

Stevemul.
Steve, it was not meant as an insult to you at all. I was merely pointing out that your friend at easyJet had misled you about training methods on modern jets. There were also a few technical errors which I had assumed came from him/her as well. I wanted to post because there were a few bizarre comments from other posters about 'Ryanair Landings' etc which were quite absurd. I do not work (and never have done) for Ryanair, but I have travelled a lot with them and always found them to be good value and professional - here I refer to their crews, not their management. I travelled with them a few days ago from Stansted to Malaga. Their landing was good and they most certainly flared on the final approach/landing. No different to any other jet landing or operator.

On a different tack, sorry to hear that you weren't able to finish your PPL training, you would have enjoyed it. Maybe you could go for it again in the near future if you can sort out the vertigo business and if you can afford it of course.


Regards

David

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gruff
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Re: Ryanair landings

Postby gruff » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:34 pm

Hopefully to get back on topic I assume it is about the way Ryanair pilots "drop" the plane onto the runway. I have wondered about this for some time and it is a real delight when I fly with a different airline and have a smooth landing. The last Ryanair flight I took out of Leeds/Bradford they had to change a wheel before takeoff because of a tyre problem. I don't know if the way they land causes more stress on them.


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