Spain isnt cheap

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ValL
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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby ValL » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:02 pm

I eat very little meat and have small portions, food for me is much cheaper in Spain. Eating out much cheaper for me too. Electric seems more expensive in Spain. I.B.I bill for 4 bed house with large garden and swimming pool in Spain is about the same as for a modern 2 bed apartment in Scotland with tiny garden no pool ! My dentist and doctors have been cheaper in Spain than in UK and vets way cheaper in Spain.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby BENIDORM » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:08 pm

Rob,
Most of what you state is true and I agree with you.

However when we had homes in UK we always used a 'Brita' water filter for drinking water and especially for tea making , the quality of water in UK does seem to differ from area to area, quite dramatically, and just this week one of my sons has told me that he only drinks bottle water because of the poor quality of his water supply.
My son does live in a Victorian house and I did point out to him that there is a possibility that some of his supply pipes are still the original lead pipes, which makes me wonder what affect it had on me as a child always having to drink tap water.?

With regard to the many price comparisons that we all seem to make from time to time,not pointless, in my opinion, I've actually learned quite a lot about different products and availability over the years that I've been a member here and of course it's all a bit of harmless fun ..surely ?

So I hope that you ( Rob ) and other 'returnees' like Miro continue to keep us updated with what's happening in UK.. :thumbup:

I have always believed in 'When in Rome'..etc and really do try to make the most and best of my situation whatever and wherever ,and if I returned to live in UK I'm sure that I would seek and find the best products at the best price and manage to 'survive'.
Regards,
Gordon

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Wicksey » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Since the OP raised the question of it being more expensive here, I think many are just saying that like us, as residents, we find it far cheaper in respect of the running costs of a house and some of the foodstuffs too. I think if you are here on holiday then you may not see such a difference as you may spend differently to when you are at home.

When I lived in a Suffolk village we had far more powercuts then I ever had here. Even though I'm in the campo, I really only get one or two a year and can't remember the last time we had one. In the UK we had a septic tank so didn't pay sewerage charges, just for water like here, and apart from rubbish collection, I don't feel that I got an awful lot more there for my extortionate council tax than I do here. It doesn't bother me taking the rubbish down to the bin when we go out, and if I want to I can chuck it out everyday which doesn't seem to be the case in the UK now.

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firsttango
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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby firsttango » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:46 pm

Oh yes over and above all else, we have the Climate------------------Priceless :thumbup:

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby elusive » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:54 pm

Not sure what extra services we got in the uk for £1200 a year compaired to what people pay here. Drains were always blocked after abit of rain and when i contacted the council they said not our job ring the water board who of course said its not our job ring the council.i guess the head of the council needed his 150k a year wage to be paid for one way or the other!

Agree re the hairdressers but when i see how cheap such services are whether it be that or others all i tend to think about is the dirt poor wages the staff most be on inorder for you to get something so cheap in the first place

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:06 pm

I don't know where you spend your money Pamela or what you spend it on but these are general costs in my area of Gran Canaria:
Rent, very nice apartment 50 metres from the beach in a very pleasant area €550.00 pm, Orange fibra internet which includes unlimited talk time on my cellphone in Spain and unlimited texts €47.00 pm, I can get 6 x 33ml cans of lager for €1.50 from Carrefour, Mureva white wine 70 cents, large pan de barra (french stick) 54 cents, fillet steak €19.00, salad etc and fruit is very inexpensive (strawberries €4.60 kg, Taxi €1.50 climbing in fee, 85 cents per kilometre.
The only things I find more expensive are, of course imported products, ie Gordons gin, baileys etc. A bottle of Faustino 1 (my favorite Rioja) is an astonishing €13.80 (It's about £20.00 plus in U K, maybe you should move here ??

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Free at Last » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:03 pm

elusive wrote:
Agree re the hairdressers but when i see how cheap such services are whether it be that or others all i tend to think about is the dirt poor wages the staff most be on inorder for you to get something so cheap in the first place


Fair point, but we also have to take into account that, for example, housing costs for working people in Spain are that much lower than they would be in the UK (and people who are renting their homes don't have to pay IBI as well as the rent, whereas they would have to pay Council Tax on top in the UK), their transport to work costs will be lower, publicly funded childcare is more readily available here for pre-school children at a much lower cost, as we've all been saying food is cheaper, so people can actually manage on lower wages. You did say yourself that 3 people in your household can live quite comfortably on 12K per year.

Another example of the difference in what things cost - we've recently ordered some made to measure curtains for the large patio window in our new living room. In trying to get some idea of what kind of amount we might expect to have to pay, I had a look at a UK site where made to measure curtains could be ordered online, and putting our measurements into their online calculator produced a cost for making the curtains (not including the fabric) of 250 pounds. We went to what I suspect is the most expensive shop in our town, they sent their own installer plus assistant to do the measuring, and the cost of making not only the heavy curtains but also the voile ones which will be hung with them, plus a co-ordinating cover for the centre table (again not including fabric) is going to be €150. That's quite some difference.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby elusive » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:01 pm

Agree re the cost of living but the way i look at it is the cost of living maybe cheaper but if for example I'm cleaning a holiday villa or slogging in a hot kitchen in a restaurant I'm still doing the exact same amount of work in one hour regardless of whether I'm gettting 5 or 10 euros an hour.buying things maybe cheaper but im still doing the same amount of hard work in that hour regardless of what im earning.I'd be pretty sickened to earn a few pounds an hour working my bits off regardless of how cheap living costs were.Does that make sense!! :crazy:

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Free at Last » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:10 pm

Yes, it does, but unfortunately there isn't and never has been a world wide agreed pay scale so that people doing the same job get paid the same irrespective of the cost of living in the country they live in! What a nightmare a job evaluation scheme on that scale would be. :)

Another way to look at it is that it isn't what the bottom line on someone's payslip says which is most important, it's what purchasing power the worker has with the amount they receive. I know I could have a comparable or better quality of life in Spain on a much lower salary than I used to earn in the UK.

Occasionally I watch one of those "Wanted Down Under" programmes about families thinking of relocating to Australia. They are attracted by the higher salaries on offer for comparable jobs, but often seem shocked by the correspondingly higher cost of housing and living costs, and some of them decide they'd be no better off on the higher wages.

The people who really are worse off here are the long term unemployed, because of the lack of a comparable welfare safety net.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Pamela1 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:47 pm

Manchesteral...you couldnt pay me to live in Las Palmas...I was there for a month when i flew with Freddie Laker over 35 yrs ago and i said id never returm...Transvestites on every corner,gay capital of the canarie islands...I have nothing against them but when its constantly pushed in your face!! I hear its still the same...

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Pamela1 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:01 pm

I take on board everything others have said...each to their own....I think if you asked a Spanish family about the cost of living you would get a different answer but of course i was comparing Spain to Uk...Life should be much better when families have finished raising their children and they have flown the nest but its not always the case...There is no social housing benifit for those unfortunate to not have work and parents end up either paying their siblings rent if they can or they have to take them back in...When an elderly parent needs nursing care it has to be paid for, we currently contribute to my husbands mothers care...His dad is 93 and also contributes from his pension..I dread to think what would happen if he also needed the same care as his wife...So no to me Spain isnt cheap....

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Manchesteral » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:06 pm

Simple question Pamela, if you don't like the prices why spend time here ?

And, I'm at a loss to understand what transvestites have to do with the cost of living, could you enlighten me as I do know or am aware of anyway, of a number of people who have chosen to live different lifestyles, I haven't yet found any of them distasteful or annoying but as you said, each to his own, some of us are more tolerant than than others and less easily swayed by opinion !

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Pamela1 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:50 pm

So if i dont like the prices then why spend time here?how childish Manchesteral and all because my experience differs from yours...If you want to act clever then go for it but you will be arguing with yourself and not me because i cant be bothered..
As for what has Transvestites got to do with the cost of living? I never said they did! YOU asked why not live here?(Las Palmas) and i gave you an honest answer as to why i wouldnt want to..As for swaying opinion? If thats how you wish to interpretate it then thats up to you..as far as im concerned everyone has their own opinion of what they like or dont like and if everytime someone has an opinion and are shot down for doing so then there wouldnt be a A.com forum...
Im out..

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby BENIDORM » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:06 am

Pamela,
First I must congratulate you for starting such a good thought provoking topic..

I really can understand your thoughts and concerns and I've lived in Spain long enough to have a reasonable understanding as to how and why Spanish people would think that Spain isn't cheap.
I was the first to reply to your original statement and I did try to offer an explanation as to why expats would consider and disagree with your idea that Spain isn't cheap theory.
Spanish people have lived in a totally different environment for a very long time and actually don't have any way of comparing their lifestyles, unlike expats who can make comparisons with previous lifestyles.
So really it probably is a good idea to be able have the luxury of being able to continue to make comparisons between UK and Spain with regard to costs of living etc., it does help expats to feel more comfortable with their new lives and not take things for granted.

Every week I have Spanish people visiting my home to practice English conversation ,they are all ages and from many different levels and I always try to include local and topical events, so today I will try to get their opinions about this subject matter.
Regards,
Gordon

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Wicksey » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:30 am

elusive wrote:Agree re the cost of living but the way i look at it is the cost of living maybe cheaper but if for example I'm cleaning a holiday villa or slogging in a hot kitchen in a restaurant I'm still doing the exact same amount of work in one hour regardless of whether I'm gettting 5 or 10 euros an hour.buying things maybe cheaper but im still doing the same amount of hard work in that hour regardless of what im earning.I'd be pretty sickened to earn a few pounds an hour working my bits off regardless of how cheap living costs were.Does that make sense!! :crazy:


For me and a number of friends here, the fact that we could give up work well under retirement age and live relatively well on a very modest income without having to work was one of the big attractions about living here. The OP made the comparison between the cost of things here and the UK, and I think for many foreigners relocating here (not just us Brits, but from other European countries too), it is the relatively low living costs that can make a difference. I didn't just move here as it was cheaper, I wanted to be here anyway for other reasons, but we could never have considered it if the costs of running our home were the same as in the UK where we had to work to pay the bills.

I know for the local population on local wages they wouldn't think it was cheap here. However, if you need care in the UK it is so expensive. I know from personal experience as a family member is paying 4000 pounds a month for private care and I don't think this is an unusual case as care providers and care homes charge so much (particularly in comparison to the average carers' wage there too, I can only think that some agencies and homes must be making a lot of profit).

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Manchesteral » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:50 am

Pamela 1, it wasn't my intention to shoot you down, it was you who said you wouldn't want to live here, in my opening statement I merely gave you the cost of living in mt local area.
It was you who said "I hear it's still the same" hence my reply that some people are swayed by opinion !
The majority of posters here are in general agreement with me regarding general living costs.
It's difficult I know when one has to bear the burden of caring for elderly relatives but wouldn't you have the same problem in the U K where I hear care home costs can be as high as £1000.00 pm.
It's unfortunate that you have to be in this position, but I don't think my response was childish, merely factual.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Free at Last » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:53 pm

Manchesteral wrote:It's difficult I know when one has to bear the burden of caring for elderly relatives but wouldn't you have the same problem in the U K where I hear care home costs can be as high as £1000.00 pm.


My sister works as Head Housekeeper in a residential care complex in the UK (Greater Manchester, not a particularly expensive area) and their fees are now up to 1k per week rather than a month, and even more for a place in the specialist dementia unit. That is far in excess of the maximum amount the local authority will pay even if someone qualifies for having their fees paid as their assets are below 23k, so in many cases relatives are having to pay top-up costs as even if there are alternative homes available which are less expensive, they may not have any vacancies.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Miro » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:42 pm

sujee wrote:OH just returned from a short visit to UK. He paid 115 for a meal(including drinks) for himself and daughter. He thought it costly but worth the money while she said how reasonable it was!.....
I spend far less on clothes than I used to as here you are not judged on what you wear. The same applies to cars... you drive what is suitable for where you live not a status symbol.


I find these statements interesting.
That someone would find £115 "reasonable" for a meal for two can surely only be in relation to what they earn; having said that, even if I was earning a million a month, I'd balk at paying that much for what at the end of the day is just food. Sure, it's nice to sit in fancy surroundings and be waited on by sycophantic creeps in *beep* bows, but what matters to me when I eat out is that the quality of the food is good and I get enough of it. Last night, Mrs.M and I ate at a very stylish but unpretentious newly opened Turkish BBQ restaurant (just down the road from her sister's place, which is just outside Liverpool city centre). We had no starters or desserts, but the huge mains, plus bread, a drink each and a fantastic Turkish coffee to round it off came to under 30 quid including tip. The service was excellent, and we were still stuffed this morning! I haven't found anywhere that would compare particularly favourably where we live in Southport, which seems to be rather hoity toity when it comes to wining and dining, but that doesn't matter to us because we don't eat out very often anyway. It did compare quite favourably with the few favourite places we used to eat out at in Torremolinos (where the drag queens & trannies never bothered us in the slightest!!)
If you find £115 reasonable for a meal out, there are plenty of posh restaurants in Spain that will happily relieve you of that kind of cash, especially in the bigger cities (including Málaga), so it's really just a case of personal choice, and not a fair indicator of relative cost of living.
As for clothes and cars - we will undoubtedly spend more on clothes here in the UK, but certainly not because we give a damn about what people think of us; rather because due to the obvious difference in climate, we hardly wore any clothes in Spain :wink: And the same goes for cars - it's a state of mind, IMHO: it's not others judging you by your clothes or car, it's how you perceive them to be judging you, or in other words, how you're judging yourself. I think as expats, we are by definition removed from our familiar environment and (perceived or otherwise) peer pressure, or the feeling of a need to conform & compete etc. etc., and so can to a certain extent re-invent ourselves. I'm an expat here in the North West really, so I'm free of those pressures, but it's also a state of mind that I think I adopted from living away from my familiar environment.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Miro » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:10 pm

Probably against my better judgement (since I'm bound to upset someone!) but Gordon has encouraged me to keep posting my thoughts, so here goes:

Free at Last wrote:I forgot about the much lower cost of hairdressing bills

Yes, good point. Mrs.M found a fantastic Russian hairdresser in Spain who did her shampoo & blow dry for a tenner. Same thing in the UK: £25 minimum :wtf: Of course, I only let her out every two or three months to get her hair done, so over the course of a year, an extra 100 quid or so isn't going to break the bank. (I do my own with a rusty old pair of garden shears, so please, no cries of sexism....)

Free at Last wrote:My gym membership here for a club with excellent facilities including a large indoor pool is €25 per month which is less than half what I was paying in the UK.
We go swimming at the local municipal pool every Friday at noon, when they do a "pound swim": an hour of lengths, roughly 1.5kms, for a £1 each, and we walk there and back, about 35 minutes each way - so that takes care of the "gym" part. Could've joined the local Fitness Club for £45 per month for two, but that makes no sense to me. Smaller pool, shorter walk & probably lots of people who go straight from there for a £115 meal where all the other beautiful people go :lol:

Free at Last wrote:We're happy with our internet costs, we have 30mb with unlimited downloads for €18 per month including IVA
That sounds like an excellent deal. We were paying closer to €60 a month for landline (which we didn't need) fibre optic and mobile; now with Plusnet, paying about half that for exactly the same.

Free at Last wrote:We used to use bottled gas for heating....we're about to find out how much more electricity costs as the new place has airconditioning which we'll use for heating....We will also be using electricity for cooking so fully expect to get much higher bills....We only need to heat our home for 4 months of the year here, though, whereas it was 8 months of the year when we lived in the UK.
We hardly ever used our air conditioning, or heating, in Spain, so inevitably we'll spend more on heating our UK home, but cooking is now gas rather than electric in Spain, so hopefully it'll balance out a bit. We had teh heating on for the first time yesterday, for an hour. I think our new home is fairly efficient (built 2000), but this will certainly be interesting, and I'll try to post again after we've been here a full year, to give a more accurate comparison.

Free at Last wrote:I have smiled at Miro's reaction to coffee prices in the UK, I find them outrageous and what you get usually tastes like dishwater.
I had a great pint of Mole Catcher real ale, and Mrs.M had a distinctly average frothy coffee/caffe latte/call-it-what-you-will, just a cup of coffee, at the fabulous Philharmonic Dining Rooms yesterday (I'm sure Gordon knows it, but for those who don't, it's just a traditional British pub really); cost an eye-watering £6.25. But the Turkish coffee I had last night I would have gladly paid £115 (not really) - I haven't had such a wonderful cup of coffee since, err...since I was last in Turkey, actually. Impossible to find in Spain, unless anyone else knows otherwise? Other than that, our new "local" cafe sells a decent cuppa for a quid, and we get to keep up our Spanish with the Mexican assistant. :thumbup: All things are possible if you search hard enough!
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

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Re: Spain isnt cheap

Postby Miro » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:19 pm

masterob wrote:We have been back in the U.K. now for almost three years and the comparative costs really play no part in our daily lives. It seems rather pointless in trying to make comparisons - you pay whatever it costs in the country you choose to live in!


Excellent point and quite agree. We are fortunate in that we can afford to choose.
If money was no object, we would probably try living a while somewhere else, just for something different - maybe Germany, or Denmark. But we would need private health cover, which alone would be prohibitive, plus at our time in life we would not be looking to buy property in another unfamiliar country so would have rent to pay as well.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.


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