Applying for Residency

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onlinelee
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Applying for Residency

Postby onlinelee » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:30 am

Hi Friends,

I wanted to ask members of the forum about their experiences of applying for residency, ideally in the Almeria area.

Whilst my wife & I own property in Mojacar, have sufficient cash in a Spanish bank, will have health cover etc, however, we don't tick one important box, we do not have income because we are not pensioners!! We are in a lucky position in that we have savings and investments in the UK that should last the rest of our lives, assuming Trump & Putin don't upset the apple cart!!

My Spanish lawyer who is dealing with this informs me that every case is different and the outcome relies on the official on the day. I can't believe my wife & I are unique in our situation, has anyone else been in the same and what was the outcome or how was it resolved? I would like to think common sense would prevail and as long as applicants have healthcare and sufficient cash to prove they won't be a drain on the Spanish system then approval should be given - maybe not!!
Last edited by onlinelee on Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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gerryh
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby gerryh » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:59 am

Do you really mean tax residency or do you mean that you live more than three months in Spain and you want to get your Resedencias, officially become resident?
They are separate and different procedures.
To get your resedencias you usually have to go to the same place, national police station, where you got your NIEs.
To become tax residents you have to submit your tax return to the Hacienda, tax authority.
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Miro
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby Miro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:23 pm

Strictly speaking, if you intend to remain in Spain more than three months you are supposed to register on the foreign residents register (for EU nationals; you don't actually get "residencia" anymore). And the experiences of others prove that yes, the requirements literally do depend on where, when and with which dimwitted funcionario you deal with on the day. If you are hoping for common sense to prevail, you're in for a rough ride in Spain.
Tax residency, as already pointed out, is a different thing altogether; by default, after spending more than 6 months in Spain in any one year you are deemed to be a tax resident and (in most cases) are obliged to declare your worlwide income to the Spanish tax authorities - you do not usually actually "apply" for this status, although I believe you can register as a tax resident if you wish to, using form 030.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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onlinelee
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby onlinelee » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:41 pm

Thanks for those replies. Yes, Spain will become our permenant home.

Two different advisors here in Mojacar gave me matching requirements for "tax residency" as a UK passport holder - Residency at the police station is the final process, both informed me this is a fairly simple process. However, for " official " tax residency the applicants are required to jump through the following hoops:

1: Each applicant must have 8000€ in a Spanish Bank account
2: Must be on the Padron
3: Must have health cover.
4: Each applicant must have income of 800€ PM

Proof of above is submitted probably along with the form that Miro suggested in person to the same government department in Almeria who issued our NIE certificates. Then an official makes a decision to grant or not grant based on what side of the bed he or she got out of! My Spanish solicitors words, not mine! Now maybe I misunderstood, its possible both tax and residency will be sorted in one fail swoop, hence all the hoops. However, regardless of the technicalities my original question remains the same.

The final process is a tax return and Modelo 720 - As I understand it.

Miro
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby Miro » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:12 pm

Sorry but two different advisors either gave wrong info, or you misunderstood.
Being a UK passport holder does not in itself require tax residency.
"Residency", or more correctly, registration at the police station is the first part of the process. Registration on the padrón (census) should only be possible once registered as a resident, although this varies from place to place.
None of this, however, has anything to do with tax residency - apart perhaps from making you more easily identifiable to the tax authorities as tax resident by virtue of your presence in Spain for more than 183 days of the year.
Last edited by Miro on Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

swerve
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby swerve » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:14 pm

Regarding the 800 euro. Can you not just set up a monthly transfer from say currencies direct etc. We use banco Sabadell and take advantage of there account with no bank charges as we are non resident. Once you become resident the bank charges stops I think You will be spending money every month so just use the money transferred for your everyday needs. Food drinks medical insurance etc. Please correct me if you know better.
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swerve
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby swerve » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:21 pm

Just found this. Hope it helps.

If you wish to make Spain your home, how should you go about it? In this article Paloma Paris from our conveyancing department explains the process for members of the EU.

You have made the decision to come and live permanently in Spain. Now you must make it legally your home. If you are here for a total of 183 days then you are classed as being a tax resident of Spain.

There are three important items you will want to secure if you wish to live here:

Residencia
Padrón
SIP (health card)
The exact requirement for each of these will depend upon where you wish to live as well as your own status. For example, depending on whether you are a pensioner, an early retiree or if you are working in Spain, there will be slightly different documents needed. However, the information below gives a general guide to what you will require at each step in the process.

Residency certificate
Your residency certificate (residencia) is the piece of paper that registers you as living in Spain. It is issued at the appropriate Foreigner’s Office or National Police station depending on where you live. In many areas you need to obtain your residencia certificate before applying for your padrón but this does vary.

You can usually obtain your residencia on the same day that you apply, provided you have all the necessary paperwork. What this consists of varies from one town hall to another so should always check before hand. You usually require:

NIE - your foreigner’s tax number
The form S1 if you are a pensioner or proof of health insurance if not
Confirmation of payment for the residencia in the bank
The completed residency application form
Passport
Proof of income
You must be able to demonstrate that your life in Spain is financially sustainable. You will be expected to show bank statements that cover the previous three months and that you have a monthly income of above €800 per person. If you have come to Spain to work then your employer should provide you with un certificado de vida laboral – which is proof that you have work here.

If you are under pensionable age then you must have proof of health insurance if you are not on contract to work. The insurance must cover everything and you may also need to show proof of payment. There are local health schemes in many parts of Spain that might be an alternative.

The convenio especial, enables you to pay into the National Health System on a monthly basis. However, you need to have been resident here for a continuous year to be eligible. The convenio especial does not cover the cost of prescriptions, health transport services or health cover when in another EU country.

There has been some confusion recently about the length of time a residencia applies. If you are a member of an EU country then your residencia does not need to be renewed. If you are not, then renewal is every five years.

The padrón
The padrón is the certificate that enables you to apply for a SIP (health card) and other local benefits within your town such as enrolling your child in a local school, obtaining a bus pass and using the local library.

To obtain your three-monthly certificate, first you must register. You can do this at a town hall office. You will need to take with you:

Proof of where you live e.g. rental contract or Title Deed
Passport
Residencia – in the case that you apply for this first in your local area
The last water bill and electricity bill (now asked for by some town halls)
Once you are registered then the certificate you are issued with lasts for three months. After this you can return to the same office and they will print off a new one for you if you take your passport and previous padrón.

You should renew your registration on the padrón every five years in order to ensure that your name is kept on the register. Town halls may contact people who have not had their certificate reissued for years and ask them to reaffirm their presence in the area. This is a quick process and helps them to confirm who exactly is living in the town.

The SIP
With your residencia and padrón you are now able to apply for your SIP card. This is the health card which will entitle you to health treatment and discounted prescription charges as part of the national health service in Spain.

In order to obtain this very important little card you need to book an appointment at your local social security office. There you will need to show:

Your NIE
Passport
S1 - if you are a pensioner
Padrón
Application form TA1
They will then give you a registration number and with this you can go to your local health clinic and obtain the SIP card itself.

Once you have your residencia, padrón and SIP, you will have acquired the basic documents you need to live as a resident in Spain. The sooner you have these in your possession the sooner you can relax and enjoy the new life you’ve chosen.
It always seems imposible until its done. Nelson Mandela

onlinelee
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby onlinelee » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:31 pm

Thanks for all the replies, they confirm to me how things are dealt with so differently from one area to another. I informed both advisors that my wife & I needed to become an "official" tax residents, maybe they did not correct me, saying you mean " Residency " both gave me the same solution - only time will clear up how these things are dealt with in Almeria.

Swerve - funnily I came up with your idea too earlier today, set up a standing order with Currencies Direct for 1600€, if this was acceptable how stupid is that, Im paying myself!!

Im hoping to hear from someone in my position in the Almeria area who recently applied and what their experience was. Thanks again.

elusive
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby elusive » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:32 pm

Yeah i agree with miro in that you have been given the wrong advice.get a new gestor/lawyer. What you listed above (the requirements) of having income,healthcare,lump sum etc is the requirements to get what many call residencia. What you are supposed to apply for if you move to spain full time after you have been here for three months.

Nothing is required to apply for tax residencia unless as said above you file the 030 but thats rarely needed.tax residency is automatically assumed so you need to do nothing other than make sure you know when you need to file your first tax return and when to file your 720.

Each office is different so best thing is to go into your local one and ask for info on what they require. Some members on here have been able to use their property as proof of income aslong as it doesnt have debts on it ie i guess a morgage? Some offices will except a large lump sum and arent bothered about a monthly income. Remember you only need to show this once so if need be move money across or set up direct debits just for show

onlinelee
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby onlinelee » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:32 pm

No, as I said in my last post, I think all my advisors are guilty of is not correcting me when I asked for their assistance to become " official " tax residents. Both advisors gave me the same list of requirements for Almeria as I mentioned, but clearly for Residency. This is all an irrelevance as my one and only question remains unchanged by this misunderstanding, namely, I hoped to hear from any forum members in a similar position to myself how they managed to resolve the issue of a box thats not ticked, i.e. not having income of 800€ pm per applicant.

El Cid
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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:50 pm

Having a regular income is only one criteria. I know of cases where they have happily accepted an escritura as proof that you are self sufficient. In fact the rules state that even a healthy credit card balance can be acceptable. Proof of adequate health care seems to be more problematic than income. For people offering a private health policy, they have even insisted that the policy does not have any restrictions on pre-existing medical problems.

Sid

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Re: Applying for Tax Residency

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:28 pm

I was in the same situation as you, although not in Ameria. I have not yet hit pension age and am living off savings.

I brought bank statements showing all the savings and had one bank account where I had been paying myself for the previous year...just moving money between my own accounts. No need for the account to be in Spain. They just took all the bank statements and glanced at them. The real issue was health care...they were a lot more thorough. Bring the full printed policy and your cover letter. Even better if you get a Spanish health care policy...but be careful it has no co-pay.

One point I would raise ...you mention several times tax residency. Strictly speaking , to be tax resident you don't need to have even told the Spanish government you exist. Tax residency is a matter of fact based upon time spent in Spain or ties to the country....it is nothing got to do with being officially registered. To claim tax residency just get an NIE (no proof of income or health care needed ro get an NIE) and tell the tax man...he will be more than happy to accept your taxes.

Residency in Spain (i.e. registering and getting the little green card UUEE) is a completely separate matter from tax residency.

onlinelee
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby onlinelee » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Thank Sid & Paddy, apparently the Almeria office is quite relaxed about health care, Co pay not a problem, they don't mind you not paying a year in advance either. I am informed they won't accept our escritura, and UK bank statements need to be officially " approved and stamped " Its clear there is no one set of rules in Andalucia, but thats Spain! I changed the subject line because its a red herring:-)

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:13 pm

My advice is just make an appointment and go with every piece of paperwork you can get your hands on that might be relevant, make sure you have the relevant amount of copies of passports etc! See what happens for yourself. I did it for myself and then went helping someone else who does not speak Spanish...in different regions of Spain. The biggest surprise was that on both occasions the person at the desk was helpful and accommodating. (they read my healthcare online off my phone and waited for my friend to make extra copies across the street)....

poppy1
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby poppy1 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:04 am

onlinelee...Myself and hubby live in the same area as you. We have had our resedencias for several years now but have only recently registered and obtained our certificates that show we are "official tax residents" in Spain.
We presented ourselves to the Tax Office in Huercal Overa where they asked for our resindencias, NIE Certificates, Padron, Passports and our last P60's.
No proof of savings or income or healthcare cover is required to obtain "tax" residency.
Hope this helps.

elusive
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby elusive » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:45 am

Prob reading this wrong but you have had your residencia for years and lived in spain for years but only now become tax resident?

So you are openly telling them you havnt paid any tax or filed 720 etc for all the years you have lived here :shh: :shock:

El Cid
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:59 am

Many people are under the limit for making a tax declaration or for submitting Form 720.

Sid

elusive
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby elusive » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:43 pm

Could be i suppose especially re 720. But cant imagine theres many who come under it. Especially expats
Last edited by elusive on Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

El Cid
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:51 pm

The tax office really are not interested in accepting zero declarations. I have some friends who have a very small income and live on a camp site in a mobile home. They read in one of the English newspapers that it was important to submit at least one tax declarations to ensure that they are treated as tax resident. I suggested that they went to the local tax office. They were told to go away!

They tried again at a different office with the same result. I then did their declaration (zero tax) online for them and that went through OK. They will not do any more declarations as they are now clearly in the system. You need to remember that a Spanish National never has this problem as he/she will be registered into the system almost from birth! That’s why the guy in the office can not understand why anyone would want to put in a zero declaration.

The reason that most people are advised to submit at least one declaration is to ensure that they benefit, if appropriate, from the allowances that residents are entitled to for CGT and IHT.

Sid

elusive
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Re: Applying for Residency

Postby elusive » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:53 pm

Cant they just file an 030 form instead? Rather than file an actual renta


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