Exhuming Franco

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ashtondav
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Exhuming Franco

Postby ashtondav » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:59 pm

I heard from someone today that there are definite pans to exhume Franco from the Valley of the Fallen monstrosity and inter him elsewhere. I have never understood why a Fascist shrine was allowed in the first place. The argument is that it is a memorial to both sides, however that doesn't quite chime with the only two marked tombs being Franco and De Valero, and its construction using Republican slave labour. Only Russia and China have similar monstrous mausoleums to dead dictators.

For anyone who hasn't gone, the Valley of the Fallen is well worth a visit to remind oneself of the hideous neo classical pomposity of Fascist architecture. Always fresh flowers on Franco's tomb stone, of course. And the fridge magnets are good.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby maureenscot » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:27 pm

I agree

Lavanda
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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Lavanda » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:07 pm

He's dead. Spain would do better to preoccupy itself with the living.

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costakid
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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby costakid » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:49 pm

Great sight from the road as you drive back to the UK. It should be kept. Rumours they were going to knock it down.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby BENIDORM » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:38 am

The tomb of Franco is just one of the very sensitive issues which divides the Spanish community, and my personal feelings are that it should be a matter for only Spanish people to decide what to do.
On the 'other' side the debate about exhuming Republican fallen is also very strong, in particular Federico Garcia Lorca, when in fact he was apparently trying to avoid being a member of any political party and was 'removed' for many other reasons.

I regularly discuss the 'Civil War' and other historical events with local Spanish people, but I try to make it very clear that I will not take sides and do not choose my friends because of any political, religious or any other affiliations.

My thoughts are that everyone should be able to learn, discuss and try to understand what happened during the Spanish Civil War and after move on and deal with all current problems .

Regards,
Gordon

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Lavanda » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:03 am

That's true Gordon. I don't take sides because I have Spanish friends across the political spectrum and want to keep them all as friends. The only trouble with all this talk of moving dead people all over the place is the danger of reviving emotions and feelings many people have worked hard at dealing with and then moving forward. The past is just that — past. It cannot be altered but it can be learned from and I think that Spain has done a pretty good job up to now.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby olive » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:16 am

I believe Sanchez said it would be before August.

The place is on my list to visit. I fear it may be closed down following Franco's remains removal.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby maureenscot » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:53 pm

it won't be closed down as there are 40000 bodies buried beneath its floor, both nationalist and Republican. Apparently Franco wanted to be buried in Madrid

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby ashtondav » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:04 pm

Lavanda wrote:That's true Gordon. I don't take sides because I have Spanish friends across the political spectrum and want to keep them all as friends. The only trouble with all this talk of moving dead people all over the place is the danger of reviving emotions and feelings many people have worked hard at dealing with and then moving forward. The past is just that — past. It cannot be altered but it can be learned from and I think that Spain has done a pretty good job up to now.


I too have friends from across the political spectrum. I draw the line at anyone who admires, follows or commemorates a dictator who licked the boots of Hitler.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby baroness » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:01 pm

I do not usually comment on political matters, but your comment requires it..... I take it that you are including the British and Mr Chamberlin in your boot lockers. This subject/stream should be closed

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby maureenscot » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:55 am

Closed? Only after you have had your say? Yes Ashtondave, i agree. i have friends whose mouths were closed for decades and now they re starting to speak up.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Stevemul » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:20 pm

“only two marked tombs being Franco and De Valero“ ??
Is that the Texas missionary??

.. on a lighter note, is there a golf course nearby? Maybe Trump will be visiting soon!

Sorry, I’ll go now....

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby katy » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:16 pm

It is a horrible place, like those structures seen in old films of Nazi rallies. Having said that just like the concentration camps, statues all over the world they should be preserved as a reminder. There is a trend now amongst liberalist snowflakes to go back to book burning and knocking the heads of statues like the Romans did, changing street names etc. How can we learn if not through history.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby El Cid » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:44 pm

Franco never wanted to be buried there, but they overruled his wishes.

http://www.surinenglish.com/national/20 ... 105-v.html

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maureenscot
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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby maureenscot » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:24 pm

Good post El Cid

Lavanda
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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:16 pm

knocking the heads of statues like the Romans did


It was the Christians that did that, not the Romans. The Christians chopped of heads and noses and also arms from Greek and Roman statues, especially of gods and goddesses to 'release the evil spirits within the statue'.

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby katy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 am

More or less but they did quite a lot of destruction in Egypt, even completely destroyed one pyramid.

Lavanda
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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:28 am

Ah! Pyramids! Yes!

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby BENIDORM » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:45 pm

Lavanda pointed out.....
It was the Christians that did that, not the Romans. The Christians chopped of heads and noses and also arms from Greek and Roman statues, especially of gods and goddesses to 'release the evil spirits within the statue'.....

And I would like to point out that they also chopped off a lot of ''T and P's''..... :shock:

I don't believe that memories , good or bad , should be interferred with and far better to let everyone have the chance to try to understand why and then move on and allow the past to enter into history...where it belongs.

I approve of museums and preserving some buildings/ structures however I think sometimes too much constant reminding of terrible deeds in the hope of it not happening again can actually have the reverse effect and revive bad practises, because of the build up of resentment.
We are not responsible for what our ancestors did but we are responsible for our own actions and with the better education now available we should be ensuring that we show much more mutual respect for other races/cultures/ beliefs.etc

I have many 'artefacts' including items from the Spanish Civil War/ WW2 and I preserve them for the sake of history, not because I believe in any specific idiology and every opportunity I get I try to use my 'props' to enhance my talks and conversations about historical events in the hope that it helps people to have more understanding and maybe more compassion.
Just my own thoughts....
Regards,
Gordon...

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Re: Exhuming Franco

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:06 pm

Nice one, Gordon.


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