padron

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
wollie
Resident
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:53 pm

padron

Postby wollie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:57 am

I was asked to get padron to transfer bike
I am not sure if I needed this?
Does this mean I am resident?
I have a holiday place but making a permanent move not being considered now.
I am concerned I made error
Any advise please.
Many thanks.

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7322
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: padron

Postby gerryh » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:28 am

You need to be on the padron at your local town hall so that they can send you the bill for the motor bike road tax.
Nothing to do with being a resident but, in theory, only residents should sign onto the padron.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

wollie
Resident
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Re: padron

Postby wollie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:18 pm

Gerry thanks for reply.
You are right as when I wanted transfer bike to me I was told I needed padron.
Could I have done this without?
I am confused as at this time I do not want be tax resident in Spain.

Regards.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14697
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: padron

Postby El Cid » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:26 pm

You don't have a choice. How many days do you spend in Spain over a calendar year?

Sid

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 9927
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: padron

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:30 pm

You should not register on the padrón if you are a non-resident because it could come back to bite you. Insist that the gestor dealing with the transfer uses the escritura and utility bills instead.

elusive
Resident
Posts: 1686
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: padron

Postby elusive » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:08 pm

gerryh wrote:You need to be on the padron at your local town hall so that they can send you the bill for the motor bike road tax.
Nothing to do with being a resident but, in theory, only residents should sign onto the padron.
Cheers
Gerry


I would think they send the car tax bill to the address you gave traffico.

Padron is the census. You shouldnt be on it unless you live here full time. Like beach says it could come back to bite you as hacienda might take it as evidence of been tax resident.

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7322
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: padron

Postby gerryh » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:27 pm

elusive wrote:I would think they send the car tax bill to the address you gave traffico.

Padron is the census. You shouldnt be on it unless you live here full time. Like beach says it could come back to bite you as hacienda might take it as evidence of been tax resident.


But isn't the car tax rate determined by the local town hall and sent out by them?
Does Traffico send the info to your local town hall?
Always assumed that it was as a result of me having an up to date padron certificate from my local town hall.
Always been asked for one for the 7 cars I have bought here.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14697
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: padron

Postby El Cid » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:22 pm

IVTM (car tax) is a local tax and Trafico are not involved at all. If stopped it is one thing they don’t ask to see.

Sid

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7322
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: padron

Postby gerryh » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:30 pm

So since IVTM (car tax) is a local tax, as I said before determined by local town hall and paid to them, then surely you need to be on the padron so they know where to send the bill?
Otherwise how do they get your address?
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14697
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: padron

Postby El Cid » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:56 pm

Presumably the gestor who handles the purchase or transfer gives them your address.

Sid

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7322
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: padron

Postby gerryh » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:03 pm

OK. The gestor has always insisted I have an up to date padron certificate from my local town hall.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

wollie
Resident
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Re: padron

Postby wollie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:26 pm

Beachcomber wrote:You should not register on the padrón if you are a non-resident because it could come back to bite you. Insist that the gestor dealing with the transfer uses the escritura and utility bills instead.
El Cid wrote:You don't have a choice. How many days do you spend in Spain over a calendar year?

Sid

Thanks Beach.
Max 90 days.

What's on document from town hall.
Alcaldia reuelto

(1) Conceder ALTA
X Por Cambio de residencia (1)
Por omission (2)

I do not understand system at all just did as advised.
The document used escitura.
I have nothing to hide but I did not want this over a Moto I paid too much for.

Regards.

wollie
Resident
Posts: 1031
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Re: padron

Postby wollie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:39 pm

Sid/Gerry,
What happened here is I bought bike and then needed transfer, I bought/paid private so all ok.
I do understand they need address but just want this done easy.
I am hoping my whole life be scrutinized over a 32 year Moto.

Regards.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 9927
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: padron

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:37 pm

The most dangerous combination is being registered on the padrón but not submitting tax returns as either a resident or a non-resident. If caught out the offender will be presumed to be a tax-evading fiscal resident with all its implications.

User avatar
dxf
Resident
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Chiclana Cadiz
Contact:

Re: padron

Postby dxf » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:41 pm

Hola

From memory it was about 2006 that the law was changed to allow non-resident home owners to purchase motor vehicles. Obviously as home owners there is an address for bills etc. but it is the responsibility of the vehicle owner to pay the tax. I wander into the Ayuntamiento and using my NIE get the necessary bills

Davexf

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3447
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: padron

Postby Wicksey » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:22 am

Friends with a holiday home here have bought cars pre 2000 but not sure if the padron certificate was needed in those days. I can remember being told to go onto the Padron in the 1990s before we were resident to boost the town's coffers and I think it used to be encouraged whether you were resident or not. Today with everything being registered on computer bases to cross check, I think it is different.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 9927
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: padron

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:01 am

I cannot emphasise enough how imperitive it is NOT to register on the padrón unless you are a tax-declaring resident. Otherwise do so at your peril.

I have property owning, long term non-resident acquaintances (not friends) in Benalmádena who pay no taxes whatsoever but are registered on the padrón in order to claim a discount on their IBI. They deserve all that will eventually come to them.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14697
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: padron

Postby El Cid » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:17 am

I recently got involved in a car transfer and the buyer was not on the Padron. Trafico in Málaga absolutely refused to do the transfer without a Padron certificate. I understand that in some provinces it may be possible with an escritura and utility bills.

Sid

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 9927
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: padron

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:33 am

Maybe the answer is to register to do the transfer then de-register immediately afterwards.

Spanish bureaucracy is full of anomalies like this where one has to bend the rules in order to achieve ones objective. I don't know if it is due to sheer incompetence or because their own lives are so lacklustre that they take perverse pleasure in making those of others as difficult as possible.

I have remembered that my wife went to DGT in Málaga with a non-resident property owner recently to transfer the ownership of a second hand vehicle and she says that she explained to the clerk why a non-resident could not register on the padrón. The clerk went off to ask someone and when she came back she said that she could accept the address on the escritura instead.

As with everything in Spain, it all depends on the individual. If you end up with some bloody-minded jobsworth as described in my second paragraph above you are on a hiding to nothing but if you can break through the icy exterior you may be able to get what you want.

bobdun
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:41 pm

Re: padron

Postby bobdun » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:59 pm

Couple of years ago now (3 years) but I bought and legally registered a motorcycle as a non resident. Initially I was told I must be on the padron. I refused because I was properly non resident and as has been mentioned I didn't want to get caught in the tax residency thing at the time. Eventually I was told as I owned a property I could supply a copy of escrutia and didn't need padron, which is what I did and it all went fine


Return to “Living in Andalucia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests