Things that you hate about spain

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Cassandra
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Postby Cassandra » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:05 pm

Oh but you can do something, about animal cruelty anyway. Just look at the number of animal shelters there are now, mainly run by 'foreigners' but with some Spanish support and paid for purely by fund-raising. I don't know what the CDS was like but in eastern Almeria packs of dogs used to roam the campo before PAWS was set up, a rare sight these days. Animal cruelty hasn't been wiped out by any means and the British are just as guilty at times as the Spanish but something is being done about it and things are slowly changing for the better. Maybe you can't tell them what to do but you can educate!

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daneinspain
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Postby daneinspain » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:20 am

Yes thats the right way to do something about it, but what Im saying is you cant go up to complain to a spanish person who has 2 dogs inside a cage with wheels hanging off the back of his car or who is throwing a bag of puppies out of his window (apologies to any sensitive females but Im trying to make a point)

You can save the dogs and make shelters but you cant tell them how to treat the animals. Thats just one example, there are many others

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Postby masterob » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:56 am

How do you think civilization spread throughout the world then? Applying your theory would have meant the Greek and, especially Roman civilizations would never have left the shores of those countries.

Of course you can affect change irrespective of where you come from. I accept that there is a right, proper and subtle way to achieve it but I do not accept that here in Spain, for example, because someone is not Spanish born and bred they must sit tight and do or say nowt! Equally, I accept that other Europeans are free to comment/ criticise things they feel need criticising in the UK. Its called democracy.

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daneinspain
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Postby daneinspain » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:01 am

Many people need to learn to show more respect to the spanish, simple as that.

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Postby Alan-LaCala » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:06 pm

If for example you find the way the spanish treat their animals terrible, you as a foreigner have no right to do anything about it nor complain to the person as it has been going on in spain for years and is quite the way it is. You cant go to a country and tell them how to do things.
I have to say that I very strongly disagree. Nothing would ever change if that was the case.

I think it is how you try to change things that is the key.

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Cassandra
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Postby Cassandra » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:33 pm

daneinspain wrote: a spanish person who has 2 dogs inside a cage with wheels hanging off the back of his car or who is throwing a bag of puppies out of his window (apologies to any sensitive females but Im trying to make a point)
Sadly do they worse than that. A couple of weeks ago a bag of puppies was thrown over the 10ft+ fence of the shelter and on the same day a galgo sealed in a cardboard box was also thrown over. Thankfully none were injured but what an incredibly cruel thing to do!

We had an open day at the shelter a few weeks ago and quite a few Spanish people came. We also have a Spanish vet working there, voluntarily, Spanish ladies helping with the cleaning of the kennels, a Spanish lawyer who does occasional pro-bono work for us and a couple of translators who also give their services free.

So it's not the Spanish that you need to complain about or to, it's ignorant, cruel, uneducated people. Just the same as the ignorant, cruel, uneducated British people who have a dog and then mistreat it.

Sorry for the rant but you can't just lump the whole Spanish nation together any more than you can British people, and thank goodness for that :wink:

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Postby Megan » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:38 pm

Hate is such an emotive word! Pluses and minuses in every country, situation etc etc etc. Everyone needs to let off steam every now and then, what never fails to amaze me though is people who let negativity overide everything else. Doesn't make for a very balanced outlook! Some of my family who live in Spain (Valencia & Andalucia), still after many years, bemoan things such as slowness of service in Banks & Supermarkets - get over it, get use to it, accept it or just shut up, I feel like saying after listening to yet another lengthy whinge from them. Failing that, come back home (of course, they don't want to do that, for them, Spain has way too many advantages, lifestyle, climate etc etc)

With regards to changing things/traditions that seem cruel or outdated in any country - I think that those type of things would only ever change if the natives whose heritage it is, want them to change.

And yes, diplomacy & democracy can work wonders.

My comments aren't aimed at any poster on here, I just think that sometimes people forget that even when it's cloudy, the sun is still always shining!

BTW one of the things that I dislike about Spain, is as somebody has already mentioned, Brit hooligans - dislike them in the UK as well though :lol: And, I think that it is a courtesy in any country, as either a visitor or a resident, to make the effort to speak at least a few words of the lingo - thank you and a smile can go far...
Meg - Sunny by nature

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Postby nevada smith » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:40 pm

spain has laws about mistreating animals
the laws were written by the spanish
i have no respect for anyone who does not obey his own laws
or enforce them...

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Postby Megan » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:58 pm

Laws without enforcement, are pointless. Those kind of laws would only be followed by naturally law abiding people. And naturally law abiding people be they Spanish or otherwise, tend not to need a law to know that mistreatment of animals or humans is a mistreatment of themselves and an injustice to life.

Despite what laws are made, we all draw our lines in the sand and define our own boundaries with regards to what is and isn't acceptable.

Even then, we sometimes break our own rules. And unless we are fully conversant with every law and amendment of whatever country we are in, anyone can unwittingly break the law. A sound moral code, a healthy respect for self and others, plus a certain amount of tolerance keeps me sane and happy.

Out of interest, what are the legal penalties for mistreating animals in Spain? Does anyone have a good website link, please?
Meg - Sunny by nature

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Postby Grouser » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:22 pm

JohnP wrote:I hate the way litter is thrown about too but isn't it a bit like the UK 30 years ago before the "Keep Britain Tidy" campaign and poor old Ronnie Corbet disappearing under a pile of rubbish (or am I just dreaming that!)
The Brits were then slowly educated, this is what is required in Spain, they need educating, Spain is years behind in a few things but isn't that what we love about the place?
I think a lot of people would agree the UK was probably a better place 20 years ago, do we want Spain to be the same as the UK is now??
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Postby Grouser » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:48 pm

On the subject of animal mistreatment, it's not just ignorance that leads to animal abuse. I would describe the use of factory farming methods to rear birds and animals as abuse. They live short, miserable lives in very restricted and unnatural surroundings, so that they can be sold cheaply for a large profit. The people who do this are not ignorant, they are something much worse.
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Big Col

what i hate about Spain

Postby Big Col » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:37 pm

As i drive everyday long distances, I still cant understand why and how motorists can run over dogs or cats,and leave the animal dead or alive.

Sad I know but i see a few every day, and when first in spain it was a shock, and if local i would come across the above,i use to get out of my van and place the dead animal on the road side or bushes,

Been here over a year now and i hate myself for admitting it,but i pass em now,and keep on driving. :oops:

so top of the list for me is thecomplete disregard for animal welfare, saying that talking to the younger generation it is changing but slowly,

Big Col

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Julie
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Postby Julie » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:05 pm

Grouser

If the majority of people didnt want cheap food, which can only be produced by force fed animals then there would not be a market, the comsumer is the guilty party, not the man who is forced by the supermarkets to produce cheaper and cheaper produce, all well and good saying hes to blame, but if he doesnt run with what the public demands then hes the one to starve, the supermarket are a massive influense in the food chain, maybe people need to educate themselfs as to what goes on behind the scenes, it is sad, british farmres are struggling to make ends meet, only the big boys are surviving, and they are not really farmers as we know them they are just businesss men, looking after number one.

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Postby katy » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:38 pm

As in Bernard Matthews :evil:

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Julie
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farming

Postby Julie » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:44 pm

Exactly, and he probably the best of the worst :oops:

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Postby Grouser » Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:41 pm

I would say it is more true that the consumer is the deluded party. There is a lack of information in general about food sources and their implications and the supermarkets are resistant to making consumers more informed, as they don't see it as being in their interest.
I don't see the argument that farmers don't have a choice. Amongst other alternatives they can go organic and go for the quality end of the market. It is an expanding area. There is more demand for organic produce in Britain that is being fulfilled within the country.
I would also contend that factory farming isn't actually farming at all. It is in fact an industrial process that treats birds and animals purely as raw material and product. As such if it should be happening at all (in my opinion it shouldn't) it should be taking place on an industrial estate and not in the countryside.
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Postby ashtondav » Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:18 pm

What I hate most about Spain; leaving a warm beach on a February day and catching a plane back to England....

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Postby fearfulfred » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:44 pm

Grouser

Organic is really just a word...when I was in college oraganic chemistry was just really anything with carbon molecules in it!!!

It is a far overused word. Don't beleive in it! Genetically modified has been with us for centuries .. hence the trend to try to go back to heirloom "whatevers"

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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:59 pm

One other thing I wish is that the Mercadona charm school employed more efficient teachers! :(

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Postby Grouser » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:12 pm

Fred, in my book organic with reference to food production means without the use of synthetic pesticides and fertilisers. I agree the term can be open to varied interpretations and abuse. However it is undoubtedly true that produce accredited in this way by the soil association in the UK can be sold for a premium. This also holds true for meat and poultry. For myself I would not wish to buy birds or animals raised in factory farm conditions. I find the concept repulsive. Though I take the point that most of the animals we eat are genetically modified stock that have been created by selective breeding, I feel it is worth paying a premium for meat from animals that have lived a fairly natural, if short life, with some freedom of movement available to them.
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