Hi. maybe someone can help me. I have been told that there is very little work in costa del sol for solo artiste's and duo's. If there are any entertainers who could help me out and point me in the right direction as regards forming a duo, it would be appreciated. I am a self contained solo artiste with guitars and all the gear etc. Can also do Disco's and Karaoke's (2 million karaoke tracks). Any info would be a good help or anyone who wants to join up to form a duo.
Cheers.
Daz.[/quote]
Gigging in Spain
Sorry Daz, first I have to hit you with a dose of cynicism, if you believe that duo's are not popular on the Costa del Sol why do you want to form one, isn't that a self defeating process? I don't get it!
On a positive note having spent 20 years as an owner of property in Spain, mostly in the Marbella area, I can tell you that in my opinion being a solo artist is probably better for you professionally, than being in a band.
Times are hard in the bar business here and running costs often need to be cut to the bone so it's cheaper to hire an individual than a band.
There's no point doing any prior marketing in this business in this area of the world, it's a case of knocking on doors and getting yourself known, it won't be easy though there are loads of people in your position so it might take a while, good luck!
On a positive note having spent 20 years as an owner of property in Spain, mostly in the Marbella area, I can tell you that in my opinion being a solo artist is probably better for you professionally, than being in a band.
Times are hard in the bar business here and running costs often need to be cut to the bone so it's cheaper to hire an individual than a band.
There's no point doing any prior marketing in this business in this area of the world, it's a case of knocking on doors and getting yourself known, it won't be easy though there are loads of people in your position so it might take a while, good luck!
Ah! the full english!!
Hi yes. Thanks for the tips.
It was more a case of if its still working for duo's on the coast, then i would like to give it a try. But i do appreciate it would be better to stay as a solo artiste.
Cheers.
Daz.
It was more a case of if its still working for duo's on the coast, then i would like to give it a try. But i do appreciate it would be better to stay as a solo artiste.
Cheers.
Daz.
Retro P wrote:Sorry Daz, first I have to hit you with a dose of cynicism, if you believe that duo's are not popular on the Costa del Sol why do you want to form one, isn't that a self defeating process? I don't get it!
On a positive note having spent 20 years as an owner of property in Spain, mostly in the Marbella area, I can tell you that in my opinion being a solo artist is probably better for you professionally, than being in a band.
Times are hard in the bar business here and running costs often need to be cut to the bone so it's cheaper to hire an individual than a band.
There's no point doing any prior marketing in this business in this area of the world, it's a case of knocking on doors and getting yourself known, it won't be easy though there are loads of people in your position so it might take a while, good luck!
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claire4james
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my opinion, offered as someone who knows nothing of the business but can give my view as a customer.......if the duo was good, they would get bookings....if they were REALLY good they may even be able to charge more....
one thing i have found here is that while there are lots of "talented" people out of work (from plumbers to singers) the ones that are really good (and i mean competent in thier chosen profession, work for a fair price (they dont have to be cheap, people are willing to pay fair rates for a good service) and then they go that "extra mile" on customer/client service) are always really really busy......
one thing i have found here is that while there are lots of "talented" people out of work (from plumbers to singers) the ones that are really good (and i mean competent in thier chosen profession, work for a fair price (they dont have to be cheap, people are willing to pay fair rates for a good service) and then they go that "extra mile" on customer/client service) are always really really busy......
from La Cala with love...........
[quote="claire4james"]my opinion, offered as someone who knows nothing of the business
You're absolutely correct about your first statement, I know from your postings that you've barely been here five minutes so I have no idea where you have gained the (erroneous) knowledge that if "you're really good you can charge more"
Let me educate you about life on the Costa (having owned property here for over 20 years), firstly there are way too many bars here, if you reduced the number of bars here by 75% there would still be too many, simple ecomonics tells us that the more bars there are the less profit there is, with everyone hoping to be a millionaire bar owner (the only way to do that is to start with two million) corners have to be cut, a bar owner is not going to pay a musician 100 euros (and believe me that's top whack) unless he's guaranteed to get that back plus an extra 100 or 200, because of this many of them will employ only very cheap musicians, accordingly the price drops, I know some brilliant musicians here who incidentally have been here many years and still only make a living, musicians are like bars on the Costa, there are just too many of them.
When I answered the original posters question it was in the spirit of honesty and experience of life here, I don't think it helps to paint a false picture, especially if as you said you know nothing of the business, sorry if you're offended by this post but, as I said I speak from long experience here and do know a few musicians, most of them struggle to make 1500 euros a month!
You're absolutely correct about your first statement, I know from your postings that you've barely been here five minutes so I have no idea where you have gained the (erroneous) knowledge that if "you're really good you can charge more"
Let me educate you about life on the Costa (having owned property here for over 20 years), firstly there are way too many bars here, if you reduced the number of bars here by 75% there would still be too many, simple ecomonics tells us that the more bars there are the less profit there is, with everyone hoping to be a millionaire bar owner (the only way to do that is to start with two million) corners have to be cut, a bar owner is not going to pay a musician 100 euros (and believe me that's top whack) unless he's guaranteed to get that back plus an extra 100 or 200, because of this many of them will employ only very cheap musicians, accordingly the price drops, I know some brilliant musicians here who incidentally have been here many years and still only make a living, musicians are like bars on the Costa, there are just too many of them.
When I answered the original posters question it was in the spirit of honesty and experience of life here, I don't think it helps to paint a false picture, especially if as you said you know nothing of the business, sorry if you're offended by this post but, as I said I speak from long experience here and do know a few musicians, most of them struggle to make 1500 euros a month!
Ah! the full english!!
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Troglodyfae
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CDS I know nothing about with regards to gigs, however inland I do know about and more especially inland Granada region. Oh and I have been here longer than five minutes..TIC
For what it is worth, you may wish to try your hand further inland where the music scene if very much alive and kicking. We would not turn out for €100
We get far more than that with drinks and food included and that is for the whole crew, artists, and roadies. We do play to the Spaniards and can fill any given bar, so there is not a problem. We do work hard and we do give value for money. Not toting for business just stating what it is like in my neck of the woods and as I said cannot speak or comment on the CDS.
Daz if you want a natter and a bit of music/gig info about my area drop me a PM rather than cluttering up this forum. Would be happy to let you know how things work here
For what it is worth, you may wish to try your hand further inland where the music scene if very much alive and kicking. We would not turn out for €100
We get far more than that with drinks and food included and that is for the whole crew, artists, and roadies. We do play to the Spaniards and can fill any given bar, so there is not a problem. We do work hard and we do give value for money. Not toting for business just stating what it is like in my neck of the woods and as I said cannot speak or comment on the CDS.
Daz if you want a natter and a bit of music/gig info about my area drop me a PM rather than cluttering up this forum. Would be happy to let you know how things work here
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Trooperman
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There is, of course, a wider aspect to this.
There seems to be an assumption on the part of many seeking to move and live out here, that earning a living is going to be somewhat easier in Spain than it was, would be, or is, in the UK.
I recall following a recent thread from someone thinking the world would flock to her door once she moved here and announced that she was giving body toning treatments. I also know artists who have moved here believing that selling paintings/artwork was going to be a lot easier than it was in Rochdale (or wherever! - Actually it might just be easier than Rochdale . but you get my meaning).
As with any business, here or in the UK or (I suspect - on the moon) a thorough research of the market without wearing those rose-tinted spectacles is essential.
There seems to be an assumption on the part of many seeking to move and live out here, that earning a living is going to be somewhat easier in Spain than it was, would be, or is, in the UK.
I recall following a recent thread from someone thinking the world would flock to her door once she moved here and announced that she was giving body toning treatments. I also know artists who have moved here believing that selling paintings/artwork was going to be a lot easier than it was in Rochdale (or wherever! - Actually it might just be easier than Rochdale . but you get my meaning).
As with any business, here or in the UK or (I suspect - on the moon) a thorough research of the market without wearing those rose-tinted spectacles is essential.
Last edited by Trooperman on Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nil illegitimum carborundum
Retro....
Firstly thanks for your offer of education on life on the costa...I have to say though I will pass, to be perfectly honest, your "education" above suggests that to be successful in the bar industry means corners have to be cut, which I think is terrible advice in ANY business.
There are also too many property developers here (isn't that your game?) and would you too advise them that "corners have to be cut?! We clearly move in completely different environments, mine isn't one of "cut corners and cheap prices" ....
In the "5" minutes I have been here I have started from scratch a very good business, that has grown and is continuing to do so. I have done so utilising entrepreneurial flair, ability to provide a higher than average service and therefore the ability to charge more than my competitors (competitors who struggle to do well on their current margins, let alone entertain the notion that they could charge more, so frankly I find your tone condescending to say the least (you know less about me than I know about the music business, yet you feel fit to criticize me for doing exactly what you are now doing!!!))
"Simple economics".....Tis you that is simple!!!!!....Yes there are far too many bars, but to suggest that revenue/profitability/earning potential is a simple division of number of punters by number of bars is naive!..Simple economics suggests that x number of bars means x number of €€€€ spent in this sector, quite what % share of this market a bar and subsequently the musician employed by said bar makes of that is dependent on their ability is it not?? ...There are bars making LOTS of money...Now these would obviously be the ones able to pay entertainers more....also, who suggested the guy limit himself to bars???? (a friend of mine recently spent several hundred euros on a singer for a private party, and let me tell you, he was booked WAY in advance!)....
As someone who has been able to launch and generate very good incomes using only the knowledge & talent I possess to provide a service rather than having benefited from price rises in property ownership as so many have done, I don't feel "erroneous" in my advice that if something is good it commands a higher price! I supply and indeed receive services that are expensive, but represent value for money because of the quality involved!
To finish...I'm not going to argue the point about whether a musician could make it here or not, however I stand very firmly by my point the really good people can charge more/will do well.
You offered advice in the spirit of honesty and experience of life here, which is EXACTLY what I did. I don't think it helps to paint a false picture either, but this is NOT what I was doing. I think you have to accept that your experience here (which is where your advice stems from) may not be the same as others, and the reason boards like this are helpful to people is because it allows readers to see and hear DIFFERENT experiences from different people.
Ultimately Retro, whether you think you will, or you think you won't, you're probably right!
Firstly thanks for your offer of education on life on the costa...I have to say though I will pass, to be perfectly honest, your "education" above suggests that to be successful in the bar industry means corners have to be cut, which I think is terrible advice in ANY business.
There are also too many property developers here (isn't that your game?) and would you too advise them that "corners have to be cut?! We clearly move in completely different environments, mine isn't one of "cut corners and cheap prices" ....
In the "5" minutes I have been here I have started from scratch a very good business, that has grown and is continuing to do so. I have done so utilising entrepreneurial flair, ability to provide a higher than average service and therefore the ability to charge more than my competitors (competitors who struggle to do well on their current margins, let alone entertain the notion that they could charge more, so frankly I find your tone condescending to say the least (you know less about me than I know about the music business, yet you feel fit to criticize me for doing exactly what you are now doing!!!))
"Simple economics".....Tis you that is simple!!!!!....Yes there are far too many bars, but to suggest that revenue/profitability/earning potential is a simple division of number of punters by number of bars is naive!..Simple economics suggests that x number of bars means x number of €€€€ spent in this sector, quite what % share of this market a bar and subsequently the musician employed by said bar makes of that is dependent on their ability is it not?? ...There are bars making LOTS of money...Now these would obviously be the ones able to pay entertainers more....also, who suggested the guy limit himself to bars???? (a friend of mine recently spent several hundred euros on a singer for a private party, and let me tell you, he was booked WAY in advance!)....
As someone who has been able to launch and generate very good incomes using only the knowledge & talent I possess to provide a service rather than having benefited from price rises in property ownership as so many have done, I don't feel "erroneous" in my advice that if something is good it commands a higher price! I supply and indeed receive services that are expensive, but represent value for money because of the quality involved!
To finish...I'm not going to argue the point about whether a musician could make it here or not, however I stand very firmly by my point the really good people can charge more/will do well.
You offered advice in the spirit of honesty and experience of life here, which is EXACTLY what I did. I don't think it helps to paint a false picture either, but this is NOT what I was doing. I think you have to accept that your experience here (which is where your advice stems from) may not be the same as others, and the reason boards like this are helpful to people is because it allows readers to see and hear DIFFERENT experiences from different people.
Ultimately Retro, whether you think you will, or you think you won't, you're probably right!
Claire4james, j4james, there was another poster here who used to get his wife to answer his postings, I don't know why 
My response to you was based on the fact that I know every inch of this area, because I spend a lot of time here, incidentally I am not in the real estate business I just happen to own two house here and two houses in Ireland, I'm actually a joiner with my own building company in Yorkshire, I don't know what line of work you're in, can you tell us, but if you have been thus far successful, then I applaud your efforts and I am not being sarcastic.
My advice to Daz was based on the fact that although there are many thousands of bars/restaurants on the costa, the ratio of successful bars to the actual number of operating bars is extremely low, probably less than 10% if you don't believe me do a websearch and see for yourself just hw many bars there are for sale between Malaga and Gibraltar.
I won't enter into a debate with you regarding marketing, mark ups, profit margins, quality of service and the like because I have no knowledge of you business activities, as the great Johnny Cash once wrote"I've seen em come and go, and I've seen em die" this line could have been written for the bar owners of the costa del sol, I had no wish to offend you or your spouse but I do know property and I do know the bar business, here it doesn't work, I wish you continuing success with your business.
My response to you was based on the fact that I know every inch of this area, because I spend a lot of time here, incidentally I am not in the real estate business I just happen to own two house here and two houses in Ireland, I'm actually a joiner with my own building company in Yorkshire, I don't know what line of work you're in, can you tell us, but if you have been thus far successful, then I applaud your efforts and I am not being sarcastic.
My advice to Daz was based on the fact that although there are many thousands of bars/restaurants on the costa, the ratio of successful bars to the actual number of operating bars is extremely low, probably less than 10% if you don't believe me do a websearch and see for yourself just hw many bars there are for sale between Malaga and Gibraltar.
I won't enter into a debate with you regarding marketing, mark ups, profit margins, quality of service and the like because I have no knowledge of you business activities, as the great Johnny Cash once wrote"I've seen em come and go, and I've seen em die" this line could have been written for the bar owners of the costa del sol, I had no wish to offend you or your spouse but I do know property and I do know the bar business, here it doesn't work, I wish you continuing success with your business.
Ah! the full english!!
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claire4james
- Andalucia.com Amigo
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If you know this, then I'll concede the point.......ThanksRetro P wrote:
I do know the bar business, here it doesn't work, I wish you continuing success with your business.
PS, having re read my previous post, i apologise if it came across agressively, that wasn't my intention......
PPS, a majority of the time its me posting, when Mrs A responds it tends to have more *beep* s in it!!!
PPPS, wouldn't want to share publicly what i do but if you genuinely want to know, then pm me....
from La Cala with love...........
I think on the whole Retro's advice was sound but James did have a point.
I run a business in a very competetive market and am successful, that is successful in that I don't have to go out and get a proper job Seriously, I think I charge more than anybody else in the industry but I would be very surprised if any of my competitors sold more than me.
On the advice of my partners and very much against my wishes we reduced our price a few months back, our level of sales remained the same, of course, that meant profits dropped.
I made them put price the price back up and we had our busiest month ever. 
I didn't find out anything I didn't already know, if you have a competetive advantage in any business you can charge a premium price. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth.
I run a business in a very competetive market and am successful, that is successful in that I don't have to go out and get a proper job
Seriously, I think I charge more than anybody else in the industry but I would be very surprised if any of my competitors sold more than me.On the advice of my partners and very much against my wishes we reduced our price a few months back, our level of sales remained the same, of course, that meant profits dropped.
I made them put price the price back up and we had our busiest month ever. I didn't find out anything I didn't already know, if you have a competetive advantage in any business you can charge a premium price. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth.
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Troglodyfae
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J4james, I'd better not mess with your missus then 
seriously no harm done on either side.
Trogladfae, have I spelt that right, I don't know about onions but give me a hammer and nails My comment wasn't clear enough, sorry, what I meant was 100 eoros per person.
I guess you work in some of the bigger venues, my point is that with the thousands of small bars ie, less than 70-80 sq m around the costa it's just not cost effective to pay a full band so a solo artist or duo are much cheaper, btw, where are you based, if you don't mind me asking, and what sort of stuff do you play?
seriously no harm done on either side.Trogladfae, have I spelt that right, I don't know about onions but give me a hammer and nails
My comment wasn't clear enough, sorry, what I meant was 100 eoros per person.I guess you work in some of the bigger venues, my point is that with the thousands of small bars ie, less than 70-80 sq m around the costa it's just not cost effective to pay a full band so a solo artist or duo are much cheaper, btw, where are you based, if you don't mind me asking, and what sort of stuff do you play?
Ah! the full english!!
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Troglodyfae
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Hiya Retro P I would not say that we play bigger venues as a rule, large or small as long as we can get our gear in and the customers then it works. However the set up does vary depending on the situation and the size of the venue. Mainly Rock & Blues, but the main vocalist has a repertoire that covers most genres. The up and coming younger vocalists obviously have a more modern angle and do like metal, so we go from croon to scream
Family gigs are more of a mixture, often Prelude do make an appearance (Brother and sister in law) and team up with the family, depends on their commitments in the Uk as they are still gigging like crazy.
We are in Granada but are known on the Costa Blanca and still gig there, never know might venture onto the CDS at some point in time. We are not pro clearly brother and sister in law are, and I suspect number 3 son will be as he is a stunning guitarist. We wait with baited breath to see what happens with our various grandchildren
Lol just noticed you UK location, never noticed it before. You will possibly know of a place in Co. Durham called 'Barnard Castle', not a million miles from York
Family gigs are more of a mixture, often Prelude do make an appearance (Brother and sister in law) and team up with the family, depends on their commitments in the Uk as they are still gigging like crazy.
We are in Granada but are known on the Costa Blanca and still gig there, never know might venture onto the CDS at some point in time. We are not pro clearly brother and sister in law are, and I suspect number 3 son will be as he is a stunning guitarist. We wait with baited breath to see what happens with our various grandchildren
Lol just noticed you UK location, never noticed it before. You will possibly know of a place in Co. Durham called 'Barnard Castle', not a million miles from York
Prelude had a hit single with their version of Neil Young's After the Goldrush!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J8X3FKPKIGI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J8X3FKPKIGI
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Troglodyfae
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Indeed they did but they look so young on that clip and Brian has hairPrelude had a hit single with their version of Neil Young's After the Goldrush!
This is how they looked last summer, whilst they were here, Irene was fascinated with my bike
It is funny as we have just found that clip that you posted the link to, I do not think that they know it is there I must send them the link today whilst I remember
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