Has anyone tried

[Babby]

Has anyone on here ever tried presenting a letter (complaint, petition, whatever) in English to your Town Hall? Was quite interesting yesterday - the Town Hall tried to tell us that by law all letters received had to be in Castellano to enter the REGISTRO and that our letter was unacceptable. In the end it was accepted.

Some town halls actually have departments that can deal with their Foreign Residents.

[peteroldracer]

Just a thought: if someone in the UK wrote a letter to the local Town Hall in, say Spanish, or Farsi or whatever, would they accept it? Should they accept it?

[v.dubber]

My thoughts exactly, surely if you choose to live in Spain you shouldn't insult the Spanish by expecting them to communicate with us in our language? Just my opinion.

[gerryh]

My thoughts exactly.
I know my Spanish is pathetic, but chose to live in Spain where Spanish is spoken. I don't expect Spanish people to speak English to me.
Cheers
Gerry

[hillybilly]

I would think it would go straight to the bottom of the pile...and stay there.

[Campo Kenny]

Funny isn't it? being awkward and unhelpful with foreigners in Spain is seen as acceptable, but the same thing happening in the UK is classed as racsist, I guess if you're a Brit you just can't win.

Kenny

[gerryh]

It what way is it being awkward and unhelpful?
I find that even when I attempt my pathetic Spanish generally I find the Spanish very helpful.

Cheers
Gerry

[Campo Kenny]

In what way is what being awkward? I'm not reffering to the original post I'm talking about the difference in attitudes to foreigners in the two countries.

[gerryh]

No idea. I was just quoting what you said.

Cheers
Gerry

[Campo Kenny]

[peteroldracer]

I do not think I am alone in believing that the worst thing that has happened to the UK over the past 20 or 30 years has been the policy of successive governments, instead of helping incomers to become as British as possible by providing language and culture classes - with attendance and achievement standards compulsory in my opinion, to act as if they are ashamed of the very values that made most immigrants want to come to Britain.
The diminution of standards of education, the formation of ghettos of many kinds, the massive costs of providing multi-lingual literature, council offices, interpreters for police and courts have all changed what the country was, and in a very short time.
I expect those people choosing to live in Spain, but having an inadequate grasp of the language to pay for that inadequacy, not expect the state to provide interpreters and multi-lingual literature. I would like to see the same policy in the UK - does that make me racist or some other label?

[scarlet]

while I agree everyone should try to speak some spanish, it becomes difficult when dealing with officialdom to know all the complicated words.telefonica speak english, sevillana speak english, market traders even speak some english, but the tax office, most town halls, and most important departments do not or choose not to, and they wonder why people dont pay taxes here, employing a translator every time can be costly. I know its spain, and we should speak spanish, but new arrivals cant be expected to know it all.

[v.dubber]

new arrivals cant be expected to know it all.

Maybe right, but at least they should make the effort. If nothing else you could always bablefish your letter, that costs nothing. To not even attempt is just plain rude, and deserves to be ignored in my opinion.

Petrolracer: im 100% with you on this one, youve hit the nail on the head!

[Campo Kenny]

I would like to see the same policy in the UK - does that make me racist or some other label?

Haven't got a clue mate.

Scarlet I agree with you totally. We bought a house on our first ever visit to Spain totally unplanned. Next visit was to pick up the keys.
Needed to go to the townhall to sort a few things out.
Guy we needed to deal with was a complete *beep*. We had smiling happy faces and were over the moon with our new purchase, but he was just a total ass. He pretended that he didn't know what we wanted even though the paperwork we had with us was self explainatory.

I finally after trying to be nice for an hour or so went ballistic when I heard a lady in the office speaking English. I asked her to ask this bloke what his problem was. She told us very sheepishly he was like that with everyone, he will only help people who speak Spanish
FFS it was only our second visit, what did the turkey expect? We were trying to pay them money not the other way around.
In general I've found the Spanish to be decent but episodes like this seem to be the norm speaking to others.
You don't have to walk under the carpet in Spain, they need us more than we need them.............and we pay for the privilege of it, something that's often forgotton.

Sometimes you have to put the odd ignorant person in their place to hopefully change their unfair and unneccessary attidudes.IMHO.

Kenny

[katy]

I have mixed feelings. I think if it was a formal letter of complaint they should have had it translated.

Don't think you can compare the UK policies with andalucia as this is a tourist area and most spanish earn their money in one way or another from residential and other tourism (many spanish will say differently!). As such they should aim to provide more english speakers, especially the utilities and ayuntamientos.

There is an increasing trend amongst spaniards not to speak English, even amongst those who speak it well, I know one or two personally but not sure of their reasons

I have an English friend who is married to a local (20 yrs), his English is reasonably fluent. She invited another English friend to lunch who does not speak spanish) and he said to her don't invite her anymore as I don't want to spend all Sunday afternoon speaking English...perhaps it is a bit of xenaphobia.

[peteroldracer]

katy - I do know how your Spanish friend feels, as in the reverse situation it is quite hard work after a while thinking in a different language, and I can always understand someone not working hard if they don't have to!
Kenny - I must admit I was a bit taken aback at your posting: I hadn't got you down as one who expects everyone to bend over backwards at the arrival of the great white sahib with his riches into their poor backwoods village......
Do you not think it is a little arrogant to expect everyone to accomodate you, when you have made little or no effort to equip yourself with the tools to exist in their land?
I am still amazed when I hear people who have obviously planned and hoped for many years to live in Spain, have probably holidayed here many times, but not bothered to even start learning the language, find out about taxes, driving rules, customs and so on. They do say that ingorance is bliss - well there must be a lot of blissful folk here!

[Campo Kenny]

Peter, on your first point you are correct. I don't expect people to bend over backwards for me and being the type of person I am become very embarrassed if it happens.
I'm also not the type of person who clicks his fingers in restaurants and boll0cks waitress's and poor shop assistants etc......not my style.

However you could not have read my post properly or you would not have posted your follow on.
For the benefit of clarity I'll repeat............We bought the house 6 weeks earlier on our first EVER trip to Spain whilst visiting friends who'd moved out. In the heat of the moment we bought whilst there without any prior thoughts about it at all

When we returned (wondering what we'd done) to pick up the keys and sign with the notary etc. we were given a list of bills etc that needed changing into our name via the Townhall.
I'm sorry but the only Spanish words I knew were si, no, gracias and cerveza...I make no apologies for that, we'd never even thought of visiting Spain until a few weeks prior, let alone having a house there.

The bod at the Townhall on admission by his fellow staff is totally anti Brit and will not deal with them civilly if they don't speak Spanish. Why should I take that, the guy has a job to do and should get on with it. He knew we were totally fresh to the country yet chose to make us feel as uncomfortable as he could for no gain. Now I don't know about you but I can let a lot pass me by, but if somebody blatantly chooses to take the **** and be awkward with me and especially my OH who'd buy and sell him then I'll take it as far as he wants to push it, no danger, and that's what I did.
Even now I can speak a fair bit of Spanish and understand a lot I'd have no chance with that bloke as he likes to do the 300 words per second thing in deepest Andaluz accent..............not on is it really? As I said and like many others we were only trying to set up payments why the agro?

The other thing is if you pay your way there you do have rights and don't have to bend over backwards by suffering idiots who want to prove a point, I'm civil to all and expect the same in return, if I don't get it then I want to know why, just as I would here.

Kenny

[scarlet]

The best thing is when you have got what you want eventually, and they want something from you, I just act like an idiot and say no entiende, with the strange frown that we normally get when we speak to them. another fun thing is in my shop when english come in they think i am spanish aas I am dark haired, and they speak to me loudly with hand signs, or make rude comments, I suddenly say I am english, it can be very amusing.

[peteroldracer]

I just act like an idiot and say no entiende

You don't need to act: what you are saying is "he/she does not understand". "I do not understand" is of course "No entiendo"

[crazyred]

In my experience I have found the Spanish to be incredibly helpful as long as you are trying. Our Spanish was very limited when we first came and in order to get all our paperwork sorted out and children into school, I didn't leave home without a dictionary and phrase book. If I had to deal with something that went over my head I would find somebody who could translate for me.

On the other hand, my mother who is Italian has been treated abominably by officials in the UK. She speaks perfect English with only a slight accent and they pretend not to understand her, or treat her like a 5 year old.