Health Insurance required

[El Cid]

I live permanently in Spain, have a Spanish will, am registered here as resident, pay taxes here (or at least am registered to, should I ever have enough income!), and own nothing in the UK. They therefore have no right to get a penny, just because I still have a Briish passport!

On that basis you are "probably" no longer UK domiciled. The problem is that there is no clear set of rules as to whether you are or not. The other problem is that HMRC will not give you a ruling until something crops up where it is an issue. It's not something you can "apply" for.

They want to keep all their options open until the last minute.

Sid

[peteroldracer]

All the aspects (tax-wise) of residency and domicile are in http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.pdf
It does make it clear that my near name-sake is speaking with a muffled voice if he has his trousers on.

[masterob]

Wicksey, Jool, Clearly we have different outlooks as to what is reasonable for the UK to provide free to people who, of their own accord decide to up sticks and move overseas, in this instance, to Spain. I find it very hard to sympathise with perceived injustices where those affected have put themselves in that position open and freely of their own accord. You made the decision to move, why whinge after the event?
By all means the UK Authorities should apply the rules to stop their abuse. While some people may fiddle the rules and get away with it that still doesn´t mean the rules are fundamentally wrong.
Should they extend free use of the NHS to people like ourselves who freely chose to move to Spain, presumably because we believed life would be more ameniable here? In my humble opinion no they shouldn´t. I knew what affect the move would have so I can hardly now whinge (yes that what it is) that I can´t get free access to the NHS. As to WFA, yes I get it because I did so before moving here. Is that rule flawed? Yes I suppose it is. However, there are plenty of examples where rules mean there are losers and winners. It´s tough for the losers but that´s life.
I pay UK tax on my Civil Service Pension, is that fair? Of course you would expect me to say that it isn´t but am I going to whinge on about it? No I´m not.
Really bored with this issue so that´s my final soapbox rant on the matter! Phew.

[peteroldracer]

The fiddlers time is drawing closer...
"Benefits cheats targeted by work and pensions minister
By Tom Cain
UK PENSIONS minister, James Plaskitt was in Alicante yesterday to launch a new benefit fraud ‘whistelblowers hotline’.

Mr Plaskitt said that around £200 million in benefits are being paid to expats in Spain every year and it is estimated that £20 million are being claimed fraudulently.

According to the minister, the Costa whistleblower hotline is a pilot scheme to be operated initially in Alicante Province only, although calls from other area will be attended.

It is based on the same scheme operating in the UK which has seen 50,000 people prosecuted for illegally claiming benefits.

Calls can be made on 900 554 440 and any information given to the hotline will be treated as confidential.

Investigations will begin in the UK and if evidence is found, benefits will be stopped immediately and prosecution will begin.

Mr Plaskitt summarised the scheme by warning: “If you’re on the beach you’re not out of reach.”

The minister warned: “We are interested in all kinds of benefit fraud starting with people who do not notify a partner’s death to continue claiming their pension, to fraudulent incapacity claims and others.
“No exceptions will be made and we won’t accept an ‘I didn’t understand the rules’ excuse.”

Prosecution will not be light-handed warn UK government officials.
Mr Plaskitt has scheduled a meeting with Spanish government officials in Madrid today (Friday) to discuss information-sharing systems that will allow benefit fraud investigators to access bank accounts held by claimants in Spain.

As stated by the minister, illegally obtained benefits are used to purchase houses, cars and other assets which could be seized if required.

If UK courts believe a custodial sentence is required, the extradition systems will be put to work.

Officials have assured expat claimants that they will not act on a simple phone call, which could cause unnecessary hardship if the information received via the hotline proves to be incorrect or malicious.

However, the announcement is likely to cause upset among Costa expats who are receiving incapacity benefits.

MORE THAN 12,000 CLAIMANTS

The move comes after Mr Plaskitt revealed in parliament that 12,010 incapacity claimants were living abroad last year with most of them in Spain or the Republic of Ireland.

Costa claimants are getting between £60 and £1,000 per week.
Each week more than one million pounds is being sent out of the UK to pay incapacity benefits to Britons who in many cases are not subject to regular medical checks to confirm entitlement of the cash.

Some of this money is also being paid to foreigners who made claims while they were working in the UK and have since returned home.
It has been estimated that in the 10 years since Labour came into power, around £496 million has been paid out to claimants who have left the UK to live abroad.

In most cases all a claimant needs to do is send GP confirmation that they are still unable to work due to illness to the Department for Work and Pensions.

A total of £200 million a year is leaving the UK to be paid to claimants in Spain.

Under current rules anyone who initially claimed their benefit while in the UK is entitled to continue claiming if they move to any of the 29 European Union states or their oversees territories, and under EU laws benefits acquired in one state must be paid to those who move to another.

Calls are being made in the UK for each and every claimant to undertake an independent medical assessment to determine their ability to work and only last month Work and Pensions Secretary James Purnell announced a £400-million-plan to replace incapacity benefit with the Employment and Support Allowance.

Once assessed, claimants will be divided into two groups, those deemed unable to work and those able to do some form of work."

[Devils Advocate]

Jeez, I'd like to think they follow this through and nail the bums.

DA

[Bongtrees]

900 554 440



I expect Old Petrol Racer has that number on speed dial already

[Jool]

This topic went all over the place and well away from its heading, so I have responded to issues that I see arising from it under About this forum....

As for this quote

why whinge after the event?

I was not whinging, merely drawing attention to the fact that it is not what it is supposed to be a fair and equitable system but a discriminatory one. More often than not the rules are not explained to anyone until after the event of moving....in addition there are all sorts of reasons why people move......and not all of them can afford alternative health care. I am double covered as I work here legitimately and my partner is now a UK pensioner....so its not a personal thing for me, I´m just more concerned about lack of uniformity, lack of clarity, lack of natural justice and active discrimination against those on lower incomes.

[Bongtrees]

Jool I think you should stop digging that hole

Never once has anyone mentioned the UK pensioners who go to live in Australia etc. their state pension is frozen at the level it was when moving so although annual rises are not huge imagine how little it is after say 10 years of no increase. In my mind this is unfair but its the rule and so be it. Pensioners have been campaigning for donkeys years and nothing has happened.

If you or any others were not aware of the facts when you left the UK it is ones own fault for not investigating fully.

Caveat emptor.

[katy]

The rumour on the coast is that many ex-pats are claiming UK benefits illegaly, particularly the younger families. They have addresses of relatives and carry on as if they have never left. That's why some seem to travel back and forth for no apparent reason. No-one would know who does it, they are not likely to sit in a British Bar and tell everyone they are claiming..are they?

Getting back to the Topic..Health Insurance. There are reams of small print now. If you have visited the Doctor for anything more than an earache you could have trouble claiming. Don't trust the "friendly" broker to fill in the forms and translate for you, they just want the commission. This happened to a Friend and after having an operation in a Málaga clinic, his Insurance co. refused to pay (12,000 euro, 5 years ago). Some companies won't pay for expensive drugs.

Don't expect all the private Hospitals to be as swish as the BUPA etc. ones in the UK. Some are fine, others a dump. Be prepared to be sent for further tests if you visit a Doctor. (many seem to have a little fiddle going with the specialists!). Some may think it is a good idea but unecessary tests can be worrying and stressful. I used to have a yearly full check up. One Doctor said a cardiogram showed an irregularity. When I went to see a specialist I saw someone I knew in the waiting room (30 years old, vibrant and healthy). She too had been refered. Needless to say there was nothing wrong with either of us. I don't know many women on private here who haven't had a hystrectomy.

[Wicksey]

Getting back to the Topic..Health Insurance. There are reams of small print now. If you have visited the Doctor for anything more than an earache you could have trouble claiming. Don't trust the "friendly" broker to fill in the forms and translate for you, they just want the commission. This happened to a Friend and after having an operation in a Málaga clinic, his Insurance co. refused to pay (12,000 euro, 5 years ago). Some companies won't pay for expensive drugs.

Don't expect all the private Hospitals to be as swish as the BUPA etc. ones in the UK. Some are fine, others a dump. Be prepared to be sent for further tests if you visit a Doctor. (many seem to have a little fiddle going with the specialists!). Some may think it is a good idea but unecessary tests can be worrying and stressful. I used to have a yearly full check up. One Doctor said a cardiogram showed an irregularity. When I went to see a specialist I saw someone I knew in the waiting room (30 years old, vibrant and healthy). She too had been refered. Needless to say there was nothing wrong with either of us. I don't know many women on private here who haven't had a hystrectomy.

I think that is very good advice Katy. As I said, insurance companies will always try to avoid paying out, for whatever type of claim and policy. I have seen programmes on TV where former employees of insurance companies have reported that they were told to always say no to claimants initially. When it's your health involved, it must be a dreadful thing to find out that they won't pay out in your hour of need.

[peteroldracer]

they are not likely to sit in a British Bar and tell everyone they are claiming..are they?

When we used to come here on package deals (cheaper than the low-cost airlines plus accomodation!) to sort out what to buy then all the resulting stuff, we sat in many a Brit bar in Benalmádena, Mijas, Torremolinos et al, and always there was a tattooed bloke in a vest, regaling his fellow Brits about how they too could fiddle the system like him - but they were already doing it!
Bring in cash payments of benefits I say, to be collected in person weekly, the day of the week changing randomly at 24 hours notice, with full DNA I.D. to make sure it really is that person!
There really has been so little will on the part of governments to seriously tackle this fraud, yet it is so simple!
When I worked in HM Customs for a while, one officer regaled us in the smoke room (long time ago, see!) how the woman next to her on the plane openly told her about how many smuggling trips she made, and where he sold the baccy, despite the officer giving her a chance to shut up by telling her what she did for a job! Brains are an optional extra in some areas, usually those where the rent is paid to a local authority direct by the DSS...

[Wicksey]

they are not likely to sit in a British Bar and tell everyone they are claiming..are they?

When I worked in HM Customs for a while, one officer regaled us in the smoke room (long time ago, see!) how the woman next to her on the plane openly told her about how many smuggling trips she made, and where he sold the baccy, despite the officer giving her a chance to shut up by telling her what she did for a job! Brains are an optional extra in some areas, usually those where the rent is paid to a local authority direct by the DSS...

Yes that's quite true. When I was a civil servant people were always reporting others that had been boasting about how much they'd been fiddling the system and avoiding paying tax etc and they expected everyone else to admire them and think how brilliant they are, when the opposite was true.

[El Cid]

I pay UK tax on my Civil Service Pension, is that fair? Of course you would expect me to say that it isn´t but am I going to whinge on about it?

I should hope not - you will pay less tax than the rest of us who have to pay Spanish tax on our pensions!

Sid

[Peter]

Petrooldracer, Sid and I and others are not wrong, the fact that you have a British passport will be enough for you to be deemed domicile UK, check with any accountant and they will get their share.

With regard to the guy who feels we should pay council tax on a property that one still owns in the UK, that is a difficult arguement to accept if you use no facilities in the UK linked to that tax.

Although resident of Spain I have property in the UK which is rented out, both commercial and residential, before any rent monies are sent to me 25% is deducted as tax. Where does that tax money go and more importantly why am I paying it ? I still have no right to NHS treatment though!

[hillybilly]

Although resident of Spain I have property in the UK which is rented out, both commercial and residential, before any rent monies are sent to me 25% is deducted as tax.

If you apply to be a Non-Resident Landlord you can avoid this although of course you still have to declare your rental income on your annual tax return...and then pay any tax due.

[El Cid]

Petrooldracer, Sid and I and others are not wrong, the fact that you have a British passport will be enough for you to be deemed domicile UK,

I never said that - possession of a UK passport will not affect domicile - passports denote citizenship/nationality only.

Having a UK golf club membership is far more likely to get you declared UK domiciled!

Sid

[Peter]

El Cid, try that argument with the tax man !

[El Cid]

El Cid, try that argument with the tax man !

Sorry - you are talking rubbish - as I said, passport holding does not affect domicile.

Sid

[Peter]

Oh Sid, how sad, so now your better informed than Blevins Franks are you !

[hillybilly]

I would trust Sid's advice any day over Blevins Franks' !