No smoking ban in force from 1st Jan 2011

[anewlife]

Read in the paper today, Euro News Weekly, that the no smoking ban in bars etc. is coming in force on 1st January next year. They were originally going to enforce it on 22nd June, but it wasn't passed.

What is everyone's opinion of this? I am a smoker and don't mind eating in a non smoking restaurant or staying in a non smoking hotel room as I can always go outside for a quick ciggie. However, I do think, that as in England, they are taking away a lot of freedom to do what we want to do wherever and whenever. How are the small bars going to cope with this if they enforce it? And in reality, do you really think that it will be policed properly seeing as a vast majority of Spaniards smoke, including those in the Guardia Civil and Local Police? I can see it happening in major cities, but villages like Galera, Orce, Huescar, Castillejar etc.(Granada province) do you you think the bar owners will take any notice? And do you think the old boys who have been going in the bars for years will take any notice?

Comments please.

[Julie]

In Spain you will still be able to smoke outside, and a lot of bars hold a lot more people outside than in, so maybe not to bad, in the Uk, it appears that the pubs are busier now smoking is banned, great to go out and not come home smelling like a dirty ashtray

[anewlife]

No not really. A friend of mine had a pub which she had to give up 18 months ago because takings were well down. It is not worth having a pub in UK now. She had a local pub where men used to go for a quiet pint and a secret smoke - not any more. She also had pool, darts and football teams there as well and lost loads of money because of the smoking ban.

I agree you can smoke outside anywhere, but for us smokers in the winter when the snow comes (and it does in Granada province, believe you me!) can you see 'pedro' or 'ventura' smoking outside when they have smoked inside bars all their lives? That is what I mean, I don't think it will policed properly like in UK.

[markwilding]

Thank god I'll be able to into a bar and not come out smelling of smoke. Those who complain about their rights as a smoker conveniently forget the rights of non smokers.
It will be interesting to see how well it is policed though

[julian]

I´m a non smoker, but as long as no one smokes at my table while I´m still eating I really don´t mind being in a smoking restaurant or bar.
I think it´s all part of the "new laws and restrictions" society that we now live in, laws are now made for the sake of it (and to give a chance to fine people who break the laws).

[anewlife]

Did any of you non smokers complain when you were in the bars in the 60's, 70's, 80's plus when smoking was freely allowed? In those days it was a sociable thing to do, smoke. But, I don't think that smoking is good for anyone (even being a smoker myself) and like Julian said, as long as smoke is not being wafted over your table when eating then he is OK with it. It is just the done thing here in Spain, unfortunately (and Greece, Italy, France etc.!)

[patchdog]

There isnt really an argument as passive smoking can cause cancer.

[frank]

I always allow myself a wry smile here in UK when I drive past a pub and see the drug addicts huddled outside in the cold and rain having their fix! As for Spain policing the law, who knows, they are good at passing laws, not so good at enforcing them. But it only needs a non smoker to report a place that is flaunting the law, a few heavy fines for the bar, and perhaps they'll get the message. I've said before, in UK there was much talk of rebellion, ignoring the law etc, but the law came in with a whimper, practically nil resistance. If Spain is serious about banning it, it's not hard to do, as many other European countries have proved.

[anewlife]

Ah, but have they actually PROVED that passive smoking causes death or lung cancer? I think the debate is still out. A friend of mine's mother died of lung cancer - never smoked, never went in smoky places - so what caused that? Unfortunately smoking is blamed for a lot of diseases and cancer because it is too easy an excuse, but what we all need to realise is that everyone has a cancer gene in their body and what triggers the cancer is the problem. Not always related to smoking I am afraid. It is just an excuse to blame it on smokers. How come most of our parents and grandparents lived to a grand old age, suffering through the war, smoking and eating very little healthy food? We have become a nation of wimps to be honest. Smoking is bad for you, I agree, but then again the Government or whoever will tell you that eating fresh fruit is bad for you too.... as they may contain too many pesticides. Work that one out - it will probably cause cancer. I rest my case.

[frank]

Ah, but have they actually PROVED that passive smoking causes death or lung cancer?

Obviously they haven't proved it to you, as it's not what smokers want to hear, and call me gullible, but results of research done my loads of prominent medical experts is sufficient to convince me. And we all know of someone that smoked a hundred fags a day for the last hundred years and is still fit as a fiddle! Smokers are free to ignore all the advice and can smoke like a train for all I care, but I'm delighted to be able to go into a pub, restaurant here in UK and not be a passive participant of their drug addiction.

[katy]

If you google the right words then you will see that there are as many experts who reject the passive smoking theory as those who accept it. Bit like the global warming fiasco. Annoying in confined places, yes, but all the harmful stuff has gone inside the smoker. Can't see anything changing in Spain, one smoking ban has already been watered down until it was meaningless. If I felt so strongly about it I wouldn't visit Spain as it is impossible to get away from the smell.. The Netherlands seems to have the most smokers, you can smoke practically everywhere, they are also the tallest, fittest looking race in Europe

Just an example

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1556118 ... ebook.html

[patchdog]

[quote="anewlife"]Ah, but have they actually PROVED that passive smoking causes death or lung cancer?

Yes

[Retro P]

I have said before and will do so again, if the government wish to ban smoking then they need to ban the sale of tobacco, for those who whinge that it's horrible to be near smokers etc, etc etc, remember it's the government that allows it, murder is against the law so most people don't do it !!

[markwilding]

Did any of you non smokers complain when you were in the bars in the 60's, 70's, 80's plus when smoking was freely allowed? In those days it was a sociable thing to do, smoke. But, I don't think that smoking is good for anyone (even being a smoker myself) and like Julian said, as long as smoke is not being wafted over your table when eating then he is OK with it. It is just the done thing here in Spain, unfortunately (and Greece, Italy, France etc.!)

You were allowed to do many things in those years which you cannot do now
Such as drive without a seat belt
Dogs could foul the pavement
Car manufacturers have to make their cars run cleaner
As I've said before it's the smelling of smoke I hate, but there is also passive smoking
I don't understand your examples of where smoking is permitted in other countries either. In France and Italy there are bans.Italy being one of the first in the world to introduce one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans

One of the main complaints I hear from bar owners here is that they were forced to buy special extacters and now if a total ban is imposed they will have been a waste of money.

[beachbabe]

Couldn't care less about the passive cancer scare.

The fact that fags stink the place out, destroy the taste and flavour of other people's food and make my clothes stink is enough for me.

As for governments permitting smoking purchases, for Gawd's sake! They allow cars but have laws over their social and civil use. Same with fags. I've got no problem with people smoking - I just don't want them blowing smoke over my food and into my face when i'm at a bar.

As for facts about business impact. Yes, it tends to hurt bars and pubs which focus on old fashioned drinking. It increases business where a significant focus lies in (far higher profit margin) food and meals.

[Campo Steve]

It increases business where a significant focus lies in (far higher profit margin) food and meals.

And that statement is based on what?

A few years ago in Florida it became law (maybe changed now) that if a bar had a turnover or more than 10% from food then they had to ban smoking. Less than 10% and smoking was allowed. Many bars cut back on the food side to bring it below 10% as it turned out more profitable. It was a shame as some of them did great food, better than those that charged high prices for it (and I don't mean burgers).

[fincalospinos]

I think it should be left to the discretion of the individual bar / restaurant owner to decide.
They know their clients best, and what impact it would have on their business.
Had they done this in the UK I doubt whether so many pubs would have closed down recently.
Providing that the bar / restaurant owner placed prominent signage on the outside of the premises, indicating whether it is a smoking / non smoking establishment, the general public can then decide to use the place or not.

[Campo Steve]

I agree fincalospinos. Pretty much the current situation in Spain anyway, as far as bars are concerned.

[frank]

Had they done this in the UK I doubt whether so many pubs would have closed down recently.
.

Pubs have been closing for years, it's nothing new, I could show you a road near me where many years ago(50-60) there used to be twelve pubs, now there are none, and nothing at all to do with smoking bans. Years ago the pub was the only place you could buy booze, all that has long since changed. People's drinking habits have changed, many prefer to stay home and have a beer bought in a supermarket for a far cheaper price than any pub would sell it. Given the number of addicts I see outside of pubs smoking, they certainly haven't stop going to pubs. I can remember when they bought in the smoking ban on aircraft and friends of ours, heavy smokers, said right, that's it, we're never flying again! It's sad that someone thinks they can't go 2-3 hours without a fag, but of course they did, they never stopped flying.

[Campo Steve]

I partially agree with you, Frank. Supermarkets do have an affect on pubs.

But supermarkets were selling cheap drink long before the smoking ban came into force. Once the smoking ban came in, local pubs did become quieter, and some closed because of it. Maybe not in your area but they did where I lived.