Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

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TerryC
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Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby TerryC » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:58 pm

Today the Parliament in the UK is voting on whether to give convicted prisoners the right to vote. The signs are that this proposal will be voted down, hooray! The argument being that why should unelected judges in Europe decide British law. You will know from my previous posts that I despise ANY nation giving up its sovereignty to Europe, be it the EU or the European Court of Human Rights so I hope the UK government does vote against this and when the flood of compensation claims arrive (lawyers have already set up offices in prisons) tell them all to get lost or use the compensation to pay for their board and lodging whilst in the nick, after all a criminal is not supposed to benefit from his criminal acts.

My fervent belief is that by committing a criminal act you immediately forfeit your human rights.

Further I believe all these cases are purely spurious, I wonder how many of the crimial population have actually voted in the past. I think it is just something for them to do and there might be a few bob in it for them at the end of the day.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Bongtrees » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:34 pm

Can prisoners vote in Spain?
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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby frank » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:41 pm

TerryC wrote: The argument being that why should unelected judges in Europe decide British law.
Hear hear, much better that our own unelected judges should decide! :lolno: :clap:
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby El Cid » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:52 pm

Bongtrees wrote:Can prisoners vote in Spain?
There are 13 countries that have a total ban like the UK - Spain is not one of them,

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Mowser » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:16 pm

I'd say it depends on the crime. Someone who hasn't paid a TV licence for example?
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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Bowler » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:25 pm

I think what we're talking about here is criminals who are incarcerated.
I'm one of the people who believe that prison should not be attractive therefore people who go there should be punished, ie by working to pay for their incarceration, I could go on about this for many, many hours but the long and the short of it is that I agree with the other poster, when you go to jail you should forfeit all but your basic human rights.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Mowser » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:38 pm

How about once the sentence has been completed? Should they be allowed to vote immediately or should there be a waiting-period?

(I don't know why I'm bothering as I couldn't really care what happens in the UK regarding elections. Given that yet another MP has been found guilty of fraudulently claiming expenses, I reckon they're all a bunch of crooks).
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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby julian » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:43 pm

Looks like most MPs won´t have a right to vote then !! :?

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby markwilding » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:41 pm

The UK government isn't going to totally defy the law.They are going to allow prisoners are have short sentence to vote and those with longer ones still won't be able to vote and hope these will appease the ECHR.
The problem for this government is that they can't afford costly court cases,which in effect if they know they are breaking the law by opposing the ECHR, they would be spending tax payers money unwisely because they couldn't win.
So they have a bit of a conundrum.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby frank » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:20 pm

TerryC wrote:Today the Parliament in the UK is voting on whether to give convicted prisoners the right to vote. The signs are that this proposal will be voted down, hooray!
Just scraped through!
The House of Commons voted by 234 to 22, majority 212 in favour of the motion
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby katy » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:54 pm

Wonder where all the other few hundred MP's were :think: Away on overseas jaunts probably!

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:56 pm

The United Kingdom should withdraw from the Human Rights Convention. The court should be renamed 'The European Court of Rights for Criminals and Terrorists'.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby katy » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:10 am

Absolutely agree.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby markwilding » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:21 am

katy wrote:Wonder where all the other few hundred MP's were :think: Away on overseas jaunts probably!
Government ministers and Labour shadow cabinet members were ordered to abstain in the Commons vote

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:34 am

How long before this toytown 'court' decrees that it is a breach of a prisoner's human rights to keep him in prison?

Getting this hot under the collar just before going to bed will do me no good whatsoever! :(

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Miro » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:47 am

I once did the "tour" of Alcatraz, and the one thing that stuck in my memory was being told that prisoners there had three basic rights: food, clothing and shelter. Anything else was considered a priviledge, and had to be earned.
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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby Julie » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:48 am

I think the worlds going mad, its sad when the criminal has more leverage than the people they have harmed, but it appears to be that way to me, I also think this human rights needs slinging out, it makes the UK a laughing stock :(
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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby patchdog » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:20 am

My fervent belief is that by committing a criminal act you immediately forfeit your human rights.

Does this include all criminal acts? surely not.

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby frank » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:46 am

Julie wrote:I think the worlds going mad, its sad when the criminal has more leverage than the people they have harmed, but it appears to be that way to me, I also think this human rights needs slinging out, it makes the UK a laughing stock :(
Unfortunately, it's not just UK, it's just that that is the country we tend to hear about. There are so many cases, I think they said on a programme with two QC's arguing about it(who make an absolute fortune out of these cases) that a case takes 6 years to come to court, and it would take 40+ years to clear up the backlog. UK doesn't account for all those cases! :lol: I don't think the average prisoner could care less whether he can vote or not, it's just trying to prove a point, probably egged on by "ambulance chasing" lawyers. 7 EU countries have a complete ban, do they propose to bring them into line?
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is it right for the UK Gove to defy ECHR

Postby janda_grant2 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:37 am

So no votes then. Sorry but I found Frank's post a bit ambiguous - thought it said that they'd voted in favour of giving prisoners the vote! It was "MPs vote 234 to 22 to reject ruling by European Court of Human Rights." Hopefully that will be end of!
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