UKIP looking ok :)

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Lavanda
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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Lavanda » Fri May 03, 2013 5:24 pm

Hi Katy, I did write "declared seats" and it took me a while to 'pop up' because I've been giving a radio interview about my forth-coming new book plans so, sorry, but I've been a bit busy ... UKIP's at 77 now and it's still not very good but if you remember my last posts on the subject I'm now a UKIP supporter. (Do you ever READ anything anyone posts? Just asking!)

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby frank » Fri May 03, 2013 5:50 pm

katy wrote:
Lavanda wrote:Out of 378 declared seats UKIP got ... 42 up to now. Jeez they must be disappointed. 42? 42? :shock:
Blimey...took you a while to pop up, too gobsmacked. :lol: You aren't very aware of whats happening are you :roll: firstly most of the results aren't in, secondly there was broad agreement amongst the political pundits that UKIP would have done well if they won 40 seats. Nigel reckons that ken Clarkes rant gave them another 3% surge...egg on kens face eh!

UKIP or Tory we may be well shot of the EU by 2016 :clap:
140 seats now, and still some way to go. Projected national share of the vote is said to be Cons 25% Labour 29% and UKIP 23%. 2% behind the Cons, some protest vote! :lolno: I see Dave is quoted as saying,
Responding to the success of UKIP, Prime Minister David Cameron said: "We need to show respect for people who have taken the choice to support this party and we are going to work really hard to win them back.
Could be a marriage made in heaven! :lolno: Still, I've had it on good authority that nobody will be voting for these nutters come the General Election, they'll all revert to their previous parties. :thumbup:
Regards, Frank

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Free at Last » Fri May 03, 2013 6:01 pm

I think most of the results are in now, and the coalition parties have lost 426 councillors, Labour have gained 260 and UKIP at the moment have 144. A lot more than even they expected, apparently (and yes, a lot more than I expected as well). An unmistakeable lurch to the right in public opinion, as always happens in a recession, I don't find it very palatable but I don't have to live there, so I just hope the new UKIP councillors will actually do a decent job and concentrate on maintaining and improving public services in their areas.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby JWhite » Fri May 03, 2013 7:34 pm

I watched the results unfolding during the day and the interviews they did with people, for example Boston, Lincs, and it was obvious why people voted UKIP, because they have no jobs, no housing and are swamped with the largest number of immigrants of any town in the UK. 3 UKIP members of the same family won there. This is not a protest vote, this is people saying they are sick of the other 3 parties ignoring their concerns which in order of priority are :

Immigration
Membership of the EU (want out)
HRA (terrorists having more say in their future than the PM through the use of the HRA)
Britain and its loss of identity

Most of the UKIP votes were picked up in towns which is significant. It is the towns which have the highest number of immigrants. Rural areas are obviously not so affected as immigrant numbers are concentrated in the big cities, not in the country areas (my own included). Soon the British will be in a minority in every major town throughout the UK.

UKIP are for control of immigration and exiting the EU, two subjects the other 3 parties avoid discussing like the plague. The people have now said through their votes "you are not listening and taking on board the people's concerns, if you will not listen we will vote for someone who not only empathises with us and listens to us but wants the same things as we do". The other 3 do NOT want out of the EU and make it plain, Cameron promised to "consider" a referendum and is now talking about bringing in a law to bring about a referendum sooner rather than later (an act of desperation which I will believe when I see it!). He also says he will do more on immigration which of course he can't without exiting the EU which he does not want to do (he thinks the people are idiots who don't know what is good for them and can be fooled for a 3rd time). So I am gambling he will do virtually nothing as usual and UKIP will continue to rise in popularity and Cameron will be toast ! With a few prominant MP's jumping ship to UKIP and it will be a force to be reckoned with. :mrgreen:

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Free at Last » Fri May 03, 2013 7:45 pm

JWhite wrote:
UKIP are for control of immigration and exiting the EU, two subjects the other 3 parties avoid discussing like the plague.
I think we all understand that, but neither of those things have anything to do with the remit of County Councils which is what people were supposed to be voting for today.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Chunky Monky » Fri May 03, 2013 8:49 pm

olive wrote:Lib Dems are finished. Clegg will be able to go onto a fat salaried job in Brussels.

I agree the Lib Dems are finished but think Cleggy will go to the House of Lords, thats providing he doesn't expire of a heart attack first. I've rarely seen so much stress on one person, serves him right the self serving get.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby masterob » Fri May 03, 2013 9:39 pm

Blimey, given the numbers who voted for UKIP there are more clowns, looneys, fruitcakes etc than I had realised! :shock:

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby markwilding » Sat May 04, 2013 1:46 am

Free at Last wrote:I think most of the results are in now, and the coalition parties have lost 426 councillors, Labour have gained 260 and UKIP at the moment have 144. A lot more than even they expected, apparently (and yes, a lot more than I expected as well). An unmistakeable lurch to the right in public opinion, as always happens in a recession, I don't find it very palatable but I don't have to live there, so I just hope the new UKIP councillors will actually do a decent job and concentrate on maintaining and improving public services in their areas.
I've been out all afternoon and evening and haven't looked at the final result but based on these figures there has also been a lurch to the centre left not just to the right.

At 24 per cent, of those who voted, UKIP have done very well but that's still a long long way off from voters saying they want out of the EU.

Katy said that that's not including people who didn't vote and UKIP would have got more if more had voted but that's not how it normally works.It's the right that normally benefits from low turnouts.

We should suppose that if people are so fed up with the EU etc, then this was their chance to voice their concern by voting UKIP and they could only get 24 per cent of those who voted to do it.

Not good enough I'm afraid and even if it's a newspaper's dream, in terms of power they have achieved very little
Last edited by markwilding on Sat May 04, 2013 8:44 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Mowser » Sat May 04, 2013 9:09 am

There was also a council election in the Borders (Leaderdale and Melrose).
UKIP got 3% of the vote. The came 6th out of 6.
Good to see that some parts of the UK are showing some sense.
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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Free at Last » Sat May 04, 2013 9:24 am

Mowser wrote:There was also a council election in the Borders (Leaderdale and Melrose).
UKIP got 3% of the vote. The came 6th out of 6.
Good to see that some parts of the UK are showing some sense.
I thought the difference in the UKIP support in the North of England was quite noticeable - no seats in Cumbria, Derbyshire or Lancashire and just 2 in North Yorkshire.

Not that having UKIP Councillors elected in Boston will make an iota of difference to the number of jobs available there, but if they could I hope the local populace would be suitably grateful to find themselves picking cabbages in the freezing cold!

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby janda_grant2 » Sat May 04, 2013 9:42 am

JWhite wrote:I watched the results unfolding during the day and the interviews they did with people, for example Boston, Lincs, and it was obvious why people voted UKIP, because they have no jobs, no housing and are swamped with the largest number of immigrants of any town in the UK. 3 UKIP members of the same family won there. This is not a protest vote, this is people saying they are sick of the other 3 parties ignoring their concerns which in order of priority are :
It was so much of an issue here in Boston a whopping 28.4% of the people registered and eligible to vote actually bothered to turn out and put a cross on their ballot paper. They may not have been a protest vote, but nor were they the overwhelming party of choice. They won because of the apathy of the [people who didn't bother to turn out (and it was a fine day, which usually means an increaased number vote).


Just for the record, in my ward the Conservatives won - Boston Rural - where most of the migrant workers work, with an increase of 10.7% of the vote.
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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby JWhite » Sat May 04, 2013 9:48 am

What is not mentioned is the number of people who wanted to vote UKIP where there was no candidate to vote for in their area. Also some areas were not voting. Areas in the north where UKIP did rubbish were probably high benefit claiming areas where they still live in the hope that returning Labour will return their benefits that have been taken away from them ! :mrgreen: Some said they ripped up their ballot paper and walked out rather than vote for the other 3 numpty parties which I applaud. UKIP have a long way to go but the idea that most people do not want out of the EU is a nonsense. This was the first opportunity people had to show the major 3 parties that what they were offering was not what they wanted, even though it was for local council elections. Every person I know wants out of the EU and everytime a news story comes up in the papers where membership of the EU blocks our actions, everyone always says we need out of the EU to take our country and our powers back. Just look at the number of terrorists who have more power than the PM. This will never change until we are out of the EU as we cannot come out of the ECHR without getting out of the EU altogether to ensure we can deport them. I think anyone who thinks there would be not enough wanting out in a referendum is fooling themselves. Only people with business interests want to stay in. I asked this question before on another forum and no-one answered that was defending membership of the EU.

What are the benefits of staying in the EU and membership ?

Perhaps someone can tell me what it benefits the average individual because all I have seen in the last 20 yrs or so are stupid rules, laws and the humungous cost to the UK, an approx. £19billion per annum at a time when we are broke and need to use that money to create jobs. So come on people, tell me how membership of the EU is creating jobs in the UK, or housing, or NHS services, or new schools to be built ? I am dying to hear of the benefits ! We could also do with that money to pay down the debts.

As janda_grant said above, people that want to stay in are those with vested interests. Farmers :wink:

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Mowser » Sat May 04, 2013 10:22 am

Areas in the north where UKIP did rubbish were probably high benefit claiming area
So it's the rich with jobs who vote for UKIP?
Then again -
A significant rise in support from women helps to explain UKIP’s electoral emergence.
Polling suggests that the party’s support may be diversifying. “It used to be heavily more male than female. Recent gains have been among the females — that’s where the surge is from,” said Stephan Shakespeare, chief executive of YouGov.
Other patterns are clear from the new UKIP strongholds: they are predominantly working-class, where voters are older and education levels lower.
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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby JWhite » Sat May 04, 2013 10:31 am

"Other patterns are clear from the new UKIP strongholds: they are predominantly working-class, where voters are older and education levels lower."

That is quite a condescending interpretation of the pattern of voting. Are they trying to say Nigel Farage and his party appeals to dead-heads? I think you will find that is completely wrong as the majority of low educationally challenged people tend to vote Labour (mainly because pappy, grandpappy and great grandpappy always voted Labour :mrgreen: ). Although there are always exceptions where poor people have brains. For example my husband's parents had 8 children and his parents always, always voted Conservative - their reason ? They said that everyone should be responsible for themselves, work hard and not expect other people to support them, especially the state. They always both worked, his father in a foundry and his mother as a cleaner in the evenings when the kids were home from school. They were poor but they were proud, they even managed to send their eldest son to University.

People should never generalise, brains are not exclusively given out to rich people !! :roll:

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby JWhite » Sat May 04, 2013 10:43 am

JWhite wrote:"Other patterns are clear from the new UKIP strongholds: they are predominantly working-class, where voters are older and education levels lower."

That is quite a condescending interpretation of the pattern of voting. Are they trying to say Nigel Farage and his party appeals to dead-heads? I think you will find that is completely wrong as the majority of low educationally challenged people tend to vote Labour (mainly because pappy, grandpappy and great grandpappy always voted Labour :mrgreen: ). Although there are always exceptions where poor people have brains. For example my husband's parents had 8 children and his parents always, always voted Conservative - their reason ? They said that everyone should be responsible for themselves, work hard and not expect other people to support them, especially the state. They always both worked, his father in a foundry and his mother as a cleaner in the evenings when the kids were home from school. They were poor but they were proud, they even managed to send their eldest son to University.

People should never generalise, brains are not exclusively given out to rich people !! :roll:
Forgot to add, my husband's sister is a member of Mensa !! :mrgreen:

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby pete_l » Sat May 04, 2013 10:50 am

JWhite wrote:What are the benefits of staying in the EU and membership ?
The single, overwhelming benefit is the £200+++ BILLION of trade the UK does with the rest of the EU every year. That gives us reduced prices for things we buy and easy, unfettered access to a market for our goods and services, of over half a billion people.

Yes, there are groups with a vested interest in the UK staying within the EU. The biggest vested interest is the CBI, i.e. british businesses, who realise that without EU membership the UK would have far fewer businesses to employ people and create wealth.

The biggest problem with the EU is that the british are so crap at negotiating deals with other countries. We still have a "colonial" attitude to "foreigners" and continually underestimate them. As a consequence we don't get good terms on contracts, or regulations (e.g. fishing). Hence the need to renegotiate the EU membership agreement. The UK also has a rather quaint attitude towards EU regulations. Whereas most other member countries have a relaxed, laid back "manana" approach to their implementation - both in degree and in timeliness, the UK tends to view these rules as absolute: that MUST be executed completely, to the letter and immediately - with no leeway or room for interpretation.
This attitude is what sets the UK aside from all other EU members, and needs a rethink within UK government. The EU isn't perfect and will be modified, but even in it's current state, it's so much more advantageous to be in it that outside it.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby JWhite » Sat May 04, 2013 11:13 am

pete_l wrote:
JWhite wrote:What are the benefits of staying in the EU and membership ?
The single, overwhelming benefit is the £200+++ BILLION of trade the UK does with the rest of the EU every year. That gives us reduced prices for things we buy and easy, unfettered access to a market for our goods and services, of over half a billion people.

Yes, there are groups with a vested interest in the UK staying within the EU. The biggest vested interest is the CBI, i.e. british businesses, who realise that without EU membership the UK would have far fewer businesses to employ people and create wealth.

The biggest problem with the EU is that the british are so crap at negotiating deals with other countries. We still have a "colonial" attitude to "foreigners" and continually underestimate them. As a consequence we don't get good terms on contracts, or regulations (e.g. fishing). Hence the need to renegotiate the EU membership agreement. The UK also has a rather quaint attitude towards EU regulations. Whereas most other member countries have a relaxed, laid back "manana" approach to their implementation - both in degree and in timeliness, the UK tends to view these rules as absolute: that MUST be executed completely, to the letter and immediately - with no leeway or room for interpretation.
This attitude is what sets the UK aside from all other EU members, and needs a rethink within UK government. The EU isn't perfect and will be modified, but even in it's current state, it's so much more advantageous to be in it that outside it.
In other words the rest of the EU pays lip service to the rules and laws, they obey them when it suits them. We always obey the law unfortunately. This is borne out by the number of terrorists deported by other EU countries. I think I read the French had deported over 100, UK = nil !

As for big business and their contracts. Selling to who ? As people in the UK can't even pay their energy bills and shops are closing at an alarming rate, I wonder who they are selling their goods to ?

Half of my local High Street is closed down and the rest are charity shops. Most of my family plus myself shop at charity shops along with millions of others so we don't need clothes shops. People are also not renewing their appliances unless they break down completely so not many appliance sales, born out by the collapse of the big electrical retailers like Currys was it, or Comet ?

Just watching the BBC news panel and they are reviewing the profile of UKIP voters. Spokesman said they were majority men and older, so not women, apparently he said men listen to Nigel more than women !

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby pete_l » Sat May 04, 2013 11:19 am

JWhite wrote:As for big business and their contracts. Selling to who ? As people in the UK can't even pay their energy bills and shops are closing at an alarming rate, I wonder who they are selling their goods to ?
Why, selling the stuff that UK workers do produce to the half a billion consumers in the EU - easily, cheaply, profitably and without trade restrictions or tariffs. The state of high-street shops is not the same as the state of manufacturing / export industries.

All those goods and services are made by british workers. Imagine how much worse the state of the country would be without that huge, huge market to sell their stuff in to? There would be fewer manufacturing jobs, fewer export / service jobs and the prices of stuff the UK imports from "europe" would be much higher than they are.

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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby Mowser » Sat May 04, 2013 11:38 am

In other words the rest of the EU pays lip service to the rules and laws, they obey them when it suits them. We always obey the law unfortunately. This is borne out by the number of terrorists deported by other EU countries. I think I read the French had deported over 100, UK = nil !
This isn't a EU problem, it's a UK problem. You are also confusing the EU with the ECHR. :crazy:
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Re: UKIP looking ok :)

Postby frank » Sat May 04, 2013 11:39 am

pete_l wrote:
JWhite wrote:What are the benefits of staying in the EU and membership ?
The single, overwhelming benefit is the £200+++ BILLION of trade the UK does with the rest of the EU every year. That gives us reduced prices for things we buy and easy, unfettered access to a market for our goods and services, of over half a billion people.
The biggest problem with the EU is that the british are so crap at negotiating deals with other countries. We still have a "colonial" attitude to "foreigners" and continually underestimate them.
Given that the EU sells us a lot more than we sell them, I'd say they are the one's benefiting from us being in the club. Anyone that thinks that if we left we would keep on buying EU produce whilst they boycott ours is in denial. The likes of Switzerland, which is not in the club, sells four times as much to the EU as we do, and whilst Switzerland is free to set up trade deals with the likes of Canada and China, we cannot. Being part of the EU is like having our hands tied when it comes to doing business, an old friend and Commonwealth country like Canada and we are banned from setting up a trade deal with it. Our trade with China is up 40%, but we cannot take advantage of that and set up a separate trade deal. In the last three months our exports to the EU fell by 7.3 per cent while our exports to the rest of the world rose by 13.2 per cent, that should tell you where we should be looking to do deals. We are not crap at doing deals, but being in the EU is preventing us from doing the deals where we want.
Regards, Frank

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