after the Greeks ...

[Manchesteral]

The running of a national economy is exactly like running a business, you do not run a business in order to make a loss ! if you do, who do you imagine makes up the deficiency ? santa claus ?

This is exactly why Greece is in the kaka, if you pay your public sector employees 90% of their final salary level to retire at the age of 51 where do you imagine the money for that pension comes from, perhaps a tree or the pension fairy ? it needs to be produced from somewhere, this is one of the reasons why Greece is bankrupt, basically because its run by fools who, by the way will probably be paying themselves a full salary and pension, no problem Stavros we'll just borrow another few hundred billion from the E U or whoever and not bother to pay it back, duh !

[olive]

The running of a national economy is exactly like running a business, you do not run a business in order to make a loss ! if you do, who do you imagine makes up the deficiency ?

Well the simple answer to that is those with money. I still believe that when the crunch comes debts will be settled by a levy on assets including bank accounts.

Let us not get carried away with the plight of the Greeks- bad though it is, most of Europe is a basket case including Britain. The debt is , I believe , about £25k per head or £31k depending on source but of course despite the prudence of George it is still rocketting up.

We all need to hope and pray that the US economy doesn't falter any time soon.

[markwilding]

]


The running of a national economy is exactly like running a business, you do not run a business in order to make a loss ! if you do, who do you imagine makes up the deficiency ? santa claus ?

duh !

Typical Tory rhetoric

It's very convenient to forget that there are some businesses gone into liquidation and with new investment and direction have done well. There are many businesses that have run at a loss for a few years and need outside investment to keep them going because they have viable futures. Amazon lost millions last year. (Mark writes this while watching Dragon's Den and seems to remember one of the investors putting money into Jessops)

That apart, I agree that a country needs to run its public sector well but it's a bit late now in Greece. So what should happen? We leave them to rot? No because a country is not like a business and when one needs help it's the responsibility of the richer nations to help.

That's my rhetoric and my opinion, which I'm entitled to and you'll have to come up with a better argument than 'duh' to change my mind.

BTW, As we all know Spain has a its own deficit but until the crisis were solvent.

[Manchesteral]

Does solvency equal destitution ? wake up !

[anyroads]

It will be fudge, more fudge and more kicking the can down the road. That is the easy bit.

The more difficult bit will be finding a form of words to ensure both sides don't lose too much face.

Frankly, I think they should be told....take it or leave it.

Take on thousands of new civil servants and pay then new drachmas.

Trouble with me, I'm all heart.

anyroads

[olive]

Whichever way it goes we are actually witnessing history in the making. A history that could have a profound impact on us Europeans.

I wonder what the odds are for an investment (you could call it a bail out) by a rich non European country e.g. China, Russia (on the hope that sanctions come off and oil prices rise again) or a Middle East country. Even such an offer might flush out a deal. After all would we want the naval base attached to such a deal in Med waters?

[anyroads]

I suppose if there is some agreement, even for six months, there will be a feel good factor around for a while, stockmarkets may even rise more...

However, will things really change in Greece ?

I doubt it.

We will be back here again. Germany will just have to grin and bare those losses.


anyroads

[anyroads]

Right, back again in four months.

Will just give people more time to move their money.


anyroads

[katy]

4 months...as long as that

[anyroads]

Will Greece be able to sort out their unions / tax evasion in four months ?

Of course they will !!

anyroads

[anyroads]

Interesting that one of the governments that were hardest on Greece in the negotiations (outside of the fact that the Greeks owe them 26 million Euros ) were Spain.

Interesting that, anything to do with podemos ?


anyroads

[markwilding]

Or maybe because it's a pro-austerity government.

[anyroads]

Sad fact is.......

They are never going to be in a position to repay ANY money. Anything else advanced, is just putting off the day of reckoning. However the paymasters in Europe don't get it ( as they say ).

anyroads

[anyroads]

It really is the end game coming up....

But once again, that may be postponed for a while.

Whichever way they dress it up, there is no solution, unless all their debts are written-off.


anyroads

[anyroads]

Reported today..

That should take care of the loans then !


"The Greek government says Germany owes Greece nearly €279bn (£204bn; $303bn) in war reparations for the Nazi occupation during World War Two.
It is the first time Greece has officially calculated what Germany allegedly owes it for Nazi atrocities and looting during the 1940s."

anyroads

[olive]

Ah but the Germans say that they legally paid the debt sometime ago.

I have just worked out that the Germans owe Britain a similar amount. I don't think Scarborough has ever been compesated for the WW1 bombing either so I will add another £1b for that .

Nice to see the Greeks playing the Russian card in the one upmanship.

[anyroads]

But surely, it improved Scarborough !

anyroads

[anyroads]

Can't pay, won't pay...

Surely the powers that be must see, whatever they cobble together, we will all be back here again soon.

Greece must be let go their own way. It will be difficult of course, but anything else is death by a thousand cuts.

anyroads

[Chica56]

I find it interesting what a normal person type politician (ie inexperienced greeks) have to say about this situation as their logic is good, it is an impossible thing to manage and throwing good money after bad effectively.......of course if they had been honest when they joined..................

[anyroads]

As we speak..

More fudge is being put together. Result, Greece will stay in the Euro for now.

Will it help the ordinary Greek in the street, the 25% unemployed, the 50% youth unemployed, no..

Sad but true.

anyroads