non resident car owners

Other topics that are not covered in the sections above.
Pamela1
Resident
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

non resident car owners

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:55 pm

We are considering buying a car in Spain, up to now i do not know if we will buy from a garage or buy privately.. I am looking for guidance on what i need to know about car registration and and anything else that i might be unaware of.Also any recommendations of non resident car insurance companies.
Another idea was if my brother in law ( he is spanish) owned the car etc would hubby be able to be a named driver under non resident status..Just not sure which is the best way to do this or the cheapest or even what could change after brexit.
Thank you in advance. :)

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7740
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: non resident car owners

Postby gerryh » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:13 pm

Brother in law owning the car would work.
In Spain it is the vehicle that is insured rather than a person being insured to drive the car.
So, provided any body who drives the car is, usually, over 25, has a valid driving licence and has the owners permission to drive the car then it is all OK.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Be aware some car insurance companies will only let EU licence holders drive the car, who knows what they will say about UK livence holders post Brexit. So if you do take out insurance make sure they allow non EU licenced drivers to drive the car

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 15254
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: non resident car owners

Postby El Cid » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:50 pm

Most insurance companies stipulate that the driver must have a licence that is valid in Spain. That would include UK licences after Brexit, possibly with an IDP.

Sid

Pamela1
Resident
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:06 pm

I had already thought that non residents may need to apply for an IDP...My son has one to drive his FIL;s car in Japan so i assumed that we may have to apply for one. Guess time will tell.

User avatar
costakid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5098
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:55 am
Location: malaga este

Re: non resident car owners

Postby costakid » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:12 am

IDP only available from Post Office from Feb 2018. AA are not allowed to issue from this month. They are only £5.50 so worth getting in case of no deal.

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4118
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Wicksey » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:41 am

If you buy privately you will need to go to a gestoria with the seller for them to handle the transfer. They will check that there are no outstanding debts on the car and will ensure that the person selling is the owner as they will need to provide their ID. You would need to provide NIE, passport and a valid pardon certificate for the car to be registered in your name.

There is a transfer fee which can run into several hundred euros, so if you bought privately you would need to have agreed who will be paying that fee. If you buy from a dealer then usually all those fees are included and they'll handle all the paperwork for you.

I bought a car from https://usedcars.malagacar.com/ last autumn which I'm really pleased with. They have newer second hand cars if that is what you wanted. We have just sold a car to http://www.axarcars.com/ and again, very pleased with the professional service we received.

Friends who are non resident insure their Spanish holiday car with Linea Directa. Not sure what will happen after the B word takes place though!

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:28 pm

El Cid wrote:Most insurance companies stipulate that the driver must have a licence that is valid in Spain. That would include UK licences after Brexit, possibly with an IDP.

Sid
When I took out my policy with Linea Direct I specifically enquired about Australian licence for visiting family (even with IDP)... they told me only EU licences were valid.

They could be the only insurance company that exclude it, but if the OP is left in that situation then there insurance is useless. Hence they need to be aware of it.

Gasman
Resident
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:53 am
Location: Huelva province

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Gasman » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:38 pm

Careful with Wikseys note - if you are non-resident, then officially you cannot sign on to the padron with the town hall since you are not a permanent resident of their town - so you cannot back up your ID with the Padron. Also the vehicle should be registered to your house so that IBI vehicle tax can be paid each year. You dont say if you have your own property in Granada Province?
Personally, I think the brother in law is the way to go, if he is agreeable? As said before, his insurance would cover other drivers, but get him to check about the Brexit, non-EU, bit. The car would be registered to his address for IBI tax, and the only drawback I can see for him, as long as you pay all the bills to him, is that if you get involved in traffic accident or fines etc, then his would be the name that the authorities would pursue!

Pamela1
Resident
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:24 pm

Thank you for all the helpful replies. Wicksey your post was very informative, mostly what i needed to know and be aware of if we bought privately,I didn't realise they charged you just to change ownership of a car, you mention that it can run into quite a few hundred Euros, quite shocking when all the admin involved is the inputting of new owner details so i guess this is just another kind of tax just for owning a car?

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 15254
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: non resident car owners

Postby El Cid » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Exactly that - it is a tax. It applies to various transfers, notably on buying a property. When you buy a new car there is a registration tax which can be as high as 14.75% of the price of the car.

Sid

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4118
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Wicksey » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:51 pm

Pamela1 wrote:I didn't realise they charged you just to change ownership of a car, you mention that it can run into quite a few hundred Euros, quite shocking when all the admin involved is the inputting of new owner details so i guess this is just another kind of tax just for owning a car?
The reason I said about agreeing who pays was because, back in 2003, we sold a car privately and when the gestoria said the transfer charges would be 450€, the buyer almost walked out on the deal having initially agreed to pay them. We ended up splitting the cost between us and them. That's why this time we have sold to a dealer who offered us a fair price, as it included all of that and was no hassle.

The good thing about the system here is that you do get assurance that the car has been transferred to the new owner properly and that it is all legal. If things are the same in the UK as when I lived there, you sold a car and the person just gave you a name to put on the form (V5???) and if they never sent their half off to the DVLC the car ownership would not be changed. You never asked for any ID.

I do know of someone who 'bought' a car here over a year ago (and not from the registered owner) and still hasn't got the paperwork for it. It is over 30 years old and goodness knows what may be owing on it! He somehow manages to get it ITVd each year but I would not like to be in that position.

Pamela1
Resident
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:36 pm

Gasman, yes we do have a property but as you say if we are not signed on the padron etc....then i guess that could cause us problems..Yes i did realise that if anything happened then it would be brother in law who would be responsible to deal with any paper work etc...I would rather not involve him but i know it would not be a problem to him...Ah it gets more complicated thinks me, tax not only on buying properties but cars too!!...Is a little old banger worth it. :lol: Nothing ever seems straight forward...
Maybe carhire is the answer for now until come the time where we will be able to spend several months at a time out there, at least i will have a good excuse to bother with all the hassle.
Wicksey i can understand your view that the Spanish system ensures that the new owner can be assured that the car has been transferred legally, i feel expats living in Spain always feel better about certain assurances which they would not worry about in the Uk...That simple piece of paper you mention which we exchange here when selling privately is something ive never given a second thought about, whether i have bought or sold...it's never been a problem but that dosen't say that someone else hasn't encountered one.
Thank you all, your answers have been very useful :thumbup:

1bassleft
Resident
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:00 am
Location: Benalmadena Costa

Re: non resident car owners

Postby 1bassleft » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 am

Being non-resident, I am not on the padron. I bought from a taller/ocasion seller and their preferred gestor (smack in the middle of a ton of dealerships, risky using a seller's gestor but no issues in my case) cost me about €150. I was ok with passport, UK licence (in Dec '17) and proof of my address. That's Malaga province though so Wicksey's exp in Axarquia would be more relevant. I've since done the ITV, the SUMA and -regrettably- the photo of my car doing 90 in a temporary 80 without hitches.

Although €2600 is eye-wateringly steep for a 2005 hatch (a cinch at £800 for the UK equivalent), I've passed the "saved money on hiring cars" point already. That said, until I was in the position to have long stretches out here, the hiring route had a lot of advantages.

Pamela1
Resident
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:30 am
Location: Co Durham/ Granada Province

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:07 am

I am not surprised to read that it was ok that you were not signed on the padron when you bought your car, unlike the Uk where everything is the same procedure for everyone in Spain it seems to vary from area to area. Reading many subjects and experiences from other forum members proves that.
Yes 2600 is an eye watering amount for a 2005 car but it seems that if you want a car then that's the kind of money involved, as you have said at least it has paid for itself in carhire costs and so it can be justified.
As you will see from my post we now intend on doing the same as yourself and buy when we are able to spend more time out there, all being well. :thumbup: .

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10644
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:02 pm

It is not only illegal for a non-resident to sign on the padrón it is also very dangerous as AEAT can use this as proof that someone claiming to be a non-resident is really a resident. I know that town hall staff insist that it has nothing to do with tax but try telling AEAT that.

This is from a third party web site so the normal caveats apply but it describes the situation and the dangers perfectly:

http://cervantesalarcon.com/en/2017/11/ ... situation/

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:25 pm

Going off on a tangent but the above link mentions "You first need to check your tax-payer status with the Tax Authority"

I am guessing that means apply for a tax residency certificate? or is there another way?

I moved to Spain permanently in late 2017 (NIE and resident card etc all done in late 2017 so became tax resident in 2018) so as of yet have not had to complete a tax return. I have completed a 030 and told the tax people I exist (in late 2017) and have requested a tax residency cert on line. It comes back saying that Spain cannot confirm I am tax resident here. ...immediate answer when done on line. I need it to placate tax authorities in another country who want proof I am tax resident somewhere else.

Is there any way I can get the hacienda to confirm I am tax resident? Or do I just try again in a few months after I complete my first tax return?

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10644
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:31 pm

I can't see how they could state that you are a fiscal resident until you have submitted a resident tax return and asset declaration if applicable.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: non resident car owners

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:23 pm

If that were true then I could never complete a tax return and never pay tax here.

Or say I had no income (just capital) then I would never have to file a tax return.

User avatar
gerryh
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7740
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: Cajiz, Malaga

Re: non resident car owners

Postby gerryh » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:15 am

You submit a tax return in the year after you become a fiscal resident.
So if you become fiscal resident in 2018 then you submit a tax return in 2019 for your income earned in 2018. Simples as they say.
Cheers
Gerry
Gerry Harris


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests