Made in China

[Wicksey]

Not everything in the Chinese bazaars are made in China. I've bought a number of glass dishes and cookware that were made in France, and plastic storage containers were made in Spain.

As already said, there are different levels of quality of Chinese goods, as they make products for big names like Bosch, Apple etc that have to be up to a certain standard. I wouldn't normally buy non-branded electrical goods from the Chinese shop as anything we had bought in the past very quickly expired. The big bazaars around here stock such a huge array of goods that I would find it difficult to avoid shopping there though.

[katy]

I very much doubt if any of you don't have an electrical/ electronic item that wasn't made in China in your home.
A quick look at some of my items
My Casio watch bought in the UK, made in China.
My wife's Kindle, bought in Spain, made in China.
Our Beko washer/ spin dryer bought in Spain, made in China
Her Xiaomi phone bought in Spain, Made in China
My Huawei router supplied by Vodafone in Spain, made in China
Both my Acer laptops bought in Spain, made in China
Many Samsung and iPhones are made in China
If I could be bothered I'm sure I would find many more made in China items.

I often by electronic modules/ components direct from China.
Recently bought an amplifier module for €7.31 direct from China, could have bought it from a Spanish supplier for more than double the price.
Cheers
Gerry

Absolutely, Even most of the expensive fashion houses like Prada, Armani, Burberry etc are all made in China. Even Beckham's British heritage brand.

Grandson is in his 3rd year Economics course at Unii and he says that it is sometimes beneficial for countries economies to import cheap goods instead of producing themselves. Long explanation.

China is decimating parts of Africa, helped by corrupt leaders. In parts of Kenya close to Tanzanian border they have stripped huge swathes of forests, pushing out the Columbian monkeys which are almost human.

[costakid]

Not everything in the Chinese bazaars are made in China. I've bought a number of glass dishes and cookware that were made in France, and plastic storage containers were made in Spain.

As already said, there are different levels of quality of Chinese goods, as they make products for big names like Bosch, Apple etc that have to be up to a certain standard. I wouldn't normally buy non-branded electrical goods from the Chinese shop as anything we had bought in the past very quickly expired. The big bazaars around here stock such a huge array of goods that I would find it difficult to avoid shopping there though.

Really, I would not have thought they stocked anything other than their own imported tat.

[katy]

Most tourist items are made in china too, including Castanets, tambourines etc.

[Wicksey]

Costakid it may just be the much bigger stores, but I was surprised at the time, but have bought numerous items not made in China, so it's worth checking. Glassware particularly seems to be French.

[Manchesteral]

Not everything in the Chinese bazaars are made in China. I've bought a number of glass dishes and cookware that were made in France, and plastic storage containers were made in Spain.

As already said, there are different levels of quality of Chinese goods, as they make products for big names like Bosch, Apple etc that have to be up to a certain standard. I wouldn't normally buy non-branded electrical goods from the Chinese shop as anything we had bought in the past very quickly expired. The big bazaars around here stock such a huge array of goods that I would find it difficult to avoid shopping there though.

Really, I would not have thought they stocked anything other than their own imported tat.

I bought a Fender electro accoustic guitar made in china under licence, I paid £230.00 for it, I also have a Guild F 150 for which I paid considerably more, both instruments are excellent, as you say costakid, there are different levels of quality and I am very happy with my Fender Knock off

[Lavanda]

I have been not buying Made in China for decades — If I can possibly help it. That decision was made after visiting different parts of China on an educational and cultural tour. I was there for a month. I have since visited twice more but nothing I have seen on my more recent trips has made me change my mind.

Of course it is difficult to not buy Made in China and it takes more effort and a bit more money. However, my reasons are moral ones. The conditions under which the people work who provide cheap products for Westerners to buy are beyond imagination. The country has so many people there is no value placed on the average person's life and no human rights whatsoever. I could not, in all consciousness, buy a Chinese item for €20 less than one Made in Spain and so knowingly support the miserable, *beep* conditions under which people have to work to produce the cheap Chinese item. Spare me the 'Well at least they have a job and their lives would be worse if they had no work' argument. The answer is 'No they wouldn't'. They would go back to their villages and grow food like they used to do instead of working 18 hours a day in a windowless, overcrowded, deafening, badly ventilated/heated/cooled factory with no Health and Safety anything. They work so they can afford to buy a Western lifestyle — but die before they have even saved the deposit.

Anyone want to know how Chinese silk is made? There's a factory with a long trough filled with boiling water. Girls of 12 years old stand on duck boards at these troughs. The silk cocoons are put in the boiling water and a several-pronged metal extension is lowered into the water and the prongs scratch the cocoons to extract the silk threads which the girls guide to be spooled above the trough. The girls stand and work for six hour shifts and do two shifts a day. Their little faces are red, raw and blistered by the boiling steam coming from the trough. Their arms are red, raw, ulcerated and bleeding. When I raised the obvious questions the factory manager misunderstood my meaning. He told me not to worry as there were plenty more girls available and production is never interrupted. That's all right then, isn't it?

I have recently found a Gloucestershire-based company that makes clothes in cotton and linen and has a factory in Nepal and I buy clothes from Tunisia and Morocco. The conditions of the workers in these countries are hugely better and the garments also better made. I prefer to support other countries that also need work and money than that rapacious, inhumane place called China.

Yesterday I bought a water filter. Made in Germany.

I feel quite passionately about this issue but I make no judgments on what other people do. It's just that, to me, not only is it a moral issue but it is also an economic one. When everything really is Made in China and all the manufacturing industries in the Western countries have closed and disappeared, then what? To me it's a no-brainer.

[Lavanda]

The *beep* in my post above is the name of the man who wrote Oliver Twist with an 'ian' on the end of his name.

I don't swear on Forums.

[katy]

Don’t know how Companies, get around the regulations but many don’t mention the China connection. Burberry clothes and bags just have a label saying Burberry London.

Yesterday a Chinese Company bought a 13% share in Norwegian Air.

[markwilding]

I would imagine the important part is the design and maybe even the cloth used.

I have a Burberry raincoat, also bought in El Corte Ingles, but until now I haven't really been bothered about where it was made but I thought I should have a look and it says Portugal. I have looked in various shirts and sweaters from quite well known brands and i can see none of them are made in America or the UK etc.
At least they are not all made in China.
Vietnam, Tunisia Indonesia are some of the countries.

[Lavanda]

Exactly, Mark. Other countries also need work and a healthy economy and giving everything to China is not a good idea on so many levels. Mind you, I do not buy anything Made in Turkey either.

[olive]

I would imagine the important part is the design and maybe even the cloth used.

I have a Burberry raincoat, also bought in El Corte Ingles, but until now I haven't really been bothered about where it was made but I thought I should have a look and it says Portugal. I have looked in various shirts and sweaters from quite well known brands and i can see none of them are made in America or the UK etc.
At least they are not all made in China.
Vietnam, Tunisia Indonesia are some of the countries.

Stacey Dooley did one of her documentaries on Textile and manufacturers in some of these non China countries. As usual it was an eye opener especially as some produced premium brand name items.

We have had all this rhetoric and vitriol about the West being dependent on stuff made in China or other cheap workforce/overheads countries but doing something about it will be tricky and I suspect will be quietly forgotten about until the next crisis. Didn't Trump get elected partly by offering to fight jobs being lost to China in particular. Back nearer to home, farming is struggling in Bulgaria because imported fruit and veg from other EU countries has 33 times the amount of subsidies meaning their home grown stuff is totally uncompetitive on the home market.

[Lavanda]

Well while I’m on a rant, Olive, I have long wanted all subsidies to be banned.

[anyroads]

They don't half make a mean virus too....

A new one every few years....

anyroads

[BENIDORM]

Lavanda,
Although I respect your observations and opinions I do find your comment 'They can return to their villages and grow vegetables', rather arrogant.
Everyone has the right to at least try to improve their lifestyles,many will fail , but at least they tried.
The 'peasants' do not get a good education or good health care so you really can't blame them for trying to improve their lives.

I've also visited factories in China and India and other places, and in some Yes I was appalled at the conditions, however there are also many very modern state of the art factories.
I wouldn't buy from anywhere if I thought that the workers conditions were not reasonable,but if you want to find 'sweatshops' and 'gang masters' then you don't have to look very far, UK has a bad reputation for such and other countries including Spain also.
British 'immigrants' work in bars, construction work, pool cleaning etc for peanuts, they arrived in Spain also hoping to improve their lifestyles.
If I can, I always try to buy European products, if not available I don't mind where it was produced as long as it's realistic value and good quality.
I buy many craft items direct from China and I've never been disappointed, fantastic range at good prices ( I use them in my little craft classes for youngsters who I help with English language conversation practice) I have been doing this for the past 9 years , I don't charge for the classes or the materials, so couldn't really afford to pay much for the materials.
Anyway I hope you can also appreciate my views which I also feel strongly about.
May I wish you a very pleasant weekend.
Regards,
Gordon

[Lavanda]

Hola Gordon. Always nice to hear the views of others.

I apologise if my comments on villages and vegetables came across as arrogant. For me that is something good and fine to aspire to as people like to eat three times a day, if they can. Growing healthy, organic vegetables is something that every man, and many women, used to do when I was a child. People had allotments. Villages had 'Vegetable Shows' with prizes for Biggest Turnip, etc.

By all means let people climb the ladders of success and achieve what they are capable of reaching. Biggest Turnip is also a goal.

[BENIDORM]

Hola Lavanda,
Thank you for your prompt explanation and thoughts.
However although I appreciate that growing vegetables is a worthy pastime and they may have full bellies, but that is not enough to improve their lifestyles and education etc.
I'm not politically motivated with my views, but I believe that everyone should have the chance to improve their education and lifestyles etc.
I've studied history ( social history) as an amateur, for many decades and have been travelling the world since I was 16 years of age and had to overcome the problems of being 'blessed' with dyslexia, so I appreciate the struggles that so many people throughout the world have to combat to attain a good standard of education and lifestyle.

I hope all is well with you in Extremadura...
Saludos,
Gordon

[BENIDORM]

ooops....posted twice by accident, it must be this cheap Chinese computer I'm using...

[Lavanda]

All is well with us here, thank you, and I hope all is well with you. We have had so much rain this Spring that Roger's vegetable garden is the best it has been for years.

I agree that people should have opportunities to improve their education and lifestyles. I did. However, we can only evaluate 'improve' as we get older and maybe only when we retire — although I know many people never get that far or have that luxury. I know so many young people living and working in London, commuting daily, paying huge rents for shabby accommodation and stressed with their jobs. Many question what they are doing and why. I'm not going to mix threads but this virus has given everyone a chance to pause and ask, "What's it all about, really?" and that is not a bad thing.

For Chinese people to want to improve their lot is understandable. However, under their political regime their opportunities are brutally limited. They leave their villages to live in polluted places and cities, in cramped conditions and just eat, sleep and work. They send money home. They are trapped in a situation that, only years later, if they live that long. will they be able to access whether what they endured was really an improvement to their life. Maybe, for them, it will be.

However, there is a huge backlash against China right now and I think there will be a reduction in demand for what they produce. Some, traditional craft-based work is beautiful, I agree. I remember going into a factory where lacquer-work furniture was made. There was showroom. We saw some beautiful pieces at horrendously sky-high prices but the sales girls said not to worry, a discount was available and they shipped worldwide. Nevertheless, no one bought anything. Two of the girls started to cry and asked us to buy something, anything. If they did not make sales they were beaten. Well, at least they were not mudered for their organs, I suppose.

[Lavanda]

Actually, Gordon, I do know that what I am writing is full of holes. It sounds like I am happy to have had all the advantages that I do not want other people to have, but I don't feel like that. If Western companies have their products Made in China then they should ensue that their Chinese workers have proper working conditions and proper wages — but they don't do that because they want a cheap labour force. What's the point of going to China if you have to pay European wages? The manufacturers collude with the poor pay and conditions these people work under. Interestingly, in spite of the cheap labour some of the 'luxury' goods they produce are still extremely expensive. The company makes the profits and that is business. I think it's a rubbish way to carry on — but I'm not instep with the world and I never have been.