Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Other topics that are not covered in the sections above.
Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 11081
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:09 pm

If the Spanish government, together with other governments around the world, were to implement the World Health Organisation guidance regarding the number of amplification cycles of the PCR test the number of positive cases would be slashed at a stroke as would the number of municipalities in confinement as well as the number of deaths falsely attributed to covid. It makes clear that the PCR test should only be used as an aid to diagnosis not as a diagnosis in its own right:

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-202 ... rs-2020-05

WHO guidance Diagnostic testing for SARS-CoV-2 states that careful interpretation of weak positive results is needed (1). The cycle threshold (Ct) needed to detect virus is inversely proportional to the patient’s viral load. Where test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation, a new specimen should be taken and retested using the same or different NAT technology.

WHO reminds IVD users that disease prevalence alters the predictive value of test results; as disease prevalence decreases, the risk of false positive increases (2). This means that the probability that a person who has a positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) is truly infected with SARS-CoV-2 decreases as prevalence decreases, irrespective of the claimed specificity.

Most PCR assays are indicated as an aid for diagnosis, therefore, health care providers must consider any result in combination with timing of sampling, specimen type, assay specifics, clinical observations, patient history, confirmed status of any contacts, and epidemiological information.


However, they are very unlikely to implement this because they are not going to want to surrender their new found control over the population and be forced to admit that their lockdown policy and destruction of the economy in general and tourist industry in particular was all for nothing.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:39 pm

Would this also stop the excess deaths? I mean if we don't test people will it stop the hospital admissions and the nurse and doctor shortage.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 11081
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:25 am

There is no suggestion that people should not be tested just a reasonable expectation that the test should be accurate and used as it was meant to be used, as a confirmation of a diagnosis not as a diagnosis in its own right.

No one knows how many of the alleged excess deaths were collateral deaths due to cancelled medical procedures and operations, suicides etc. These were unnecessary deaths caused by government measures many of which have been implemented as a result of incorrect use of PCR tests.

The shortage of medical staff is due to the same flawed PCR test results being used to unnecessarily quarantine countless numbers of perfectly healthy healthcare workers who should be at work helping their colleagues.

It is interesting to see the World Health Organisation attempting to distance itself from the scandal of the way these test are used as it is in the use of unnecessary lockdowns. Perhaps it hopes to shield itself from the inevitable subsequent prosecutions for crimes against humanity.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:42 am

You are right we don't know how many of the excess deaths were due to suicides etc. However what we do know is in Europe the excess deaths began in week 10 of 2020, which is the 1st week of March. This is before lockdowns were imposed. At this point nobody was missing any hospital appointments etc.

There was barely any Covid testing then. Spain for example was only testing if you had symptoms AND a link to China.

What else could have been causing the excess deaths at that point?

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:47 am

Back on subject does anyone know if the 14 days perimetral lockdown release is based on being 14 days below 500?

Example Town A shows 543 on say Monday February 1st. Locked in on 3rd February.
7th still 523. 15th 380. In this case are they released on 17th? Or do they need 14 days in a row back below 500?

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 11081
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 am

Changing the subject is the perfect ploy for someone who has no valid argument.

The current covid restrictioss, even more so than before, are directly based upon flawed PCR test results as are the much vaunted statements of the number of daily deaths of people who have 'tested positive' with a given number of days.

Even the so-called fact checkers have not tried to debunk the guidance notes of the World Health Organisation in respect of PCR tests. They must know that they would be open to ridicule if they did.

I am very unlikely to give any credence to the opinions of someone who doesn't even know the laws governing his own chosen hobby.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby El Cid » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:24 am

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:47 am Back on subject does anyone know if the 14 days perimetral lockdown release is based on being 14 days below 500?

Example Town A shows 543 on say Monday February 1st. Locked in on 3rd February.
7th still 523. 15th 380. In this case are they released on 17th? Or do they need 14 days in a row back below 500?
This from ABC Sevilla

If a municipality drops below 1,000 or 500 cases, the measures may be relaxed, provided that 14 days have elapsed since they were applied.
-If a municipality goes from an incidence of more than 500 to more than 1,000 cases, it can go from grade 1 to grade 2, even if 14 days have not elapsed. In these cases, the period of 14 days will begin to count again from the day that grade 2 came into force.


Sid

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3275
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby elusive » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:45 am

The juntas looking at closing all non essential shops etc regardless of the 500/1000 rule. To be decided at the meeting on friday.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby katy » Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:36 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:25 am There is no suggestion that people should not be tested just a reasonable expectation that the test should be accurate and used as it was meant to be used, as a confirmation of a diagnosis not as a diagnosis in its own right.

No one knows how many of the alleged excess deaths were collateral deaths due to cancelled medical procedures and operations, suicides etc. These were unnecessary deaths caused by government measures many of which have been implemented as a result of incorrect use of PCR tests.

The shortage of medical staff is due to the same flawed PCR test results being used to unnecessarily quarantine countless numbers of perfectly healthy healthcare workers who should be at work helping their colleagues.

It is interesting to see the World Health Organisation attempting to distance itself from the scandal of the way these test are used as it is in the use of unnecessary lockdowns. Perhaps it hopes to shield itself from the inevitable subsequent prosecutions for crimes against humanity.
Agree with all this. On UK TV today said over 100,000 deaths WITH Covid. We shall never know how many were already dying.

As for the testing, none of the stats make sense. A relative has an SME run from Ireland. Some of the team are specialist workers and do contracts in Europe. Every time they travel back and forth they have to have Covid tests. 4 have just returned to Dublin and tested positive. All are asymptomatic, two of them are over 60.

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:31 pm

Many of my local municipals have gone over the limits so will have to have extra restrictions which include various measures but it should be noted that there are distinct differences to the lockdown in the UK and what is happening in Spain.
For the moment shops are open and classes/schools continue as they have done since last summer. There are limits to where we can go but it's possible to be out of the house for any reason for most of the day.

My weekdays are not that much different to this time last year-pre Covid. However, It's the weekend which will be different. For the next month or so, no weekend visits to the in-law's (Don't tell my wife but that's one of the benefits) or trips to Bilbao. I normally go to watch live music on Sundays and Fridays but now I can't enjoy a meal while watching on Friday evening because they have to finish at 8, although I think this might change over the coming days and pubs might have to close.

Luckily my wife works and is doing a course near to her mother's so is able to have her lunch there between doing both

The point of my post is that the current restrictions vary from municipal to municipal and region to region and those who might be arriving from outside Spain need to know the specific rules for where they will be based.

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4500
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby olive » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:34 pm

Crikey Mark, live music, pubs open at night, meals at night. I cannot remember the last time we had that here in Andalucia.

I dug loose change out of my pocket from the last time I went out and was shocked to find it was pesetas. :wtf:

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:43 pm

We go Sunday at lunch time and Friday evening.
In my municipal we haven’t reached the limit yet but it’s close so we fully expect changes in the next seven days
The areas around had new restrictions over the last week or so.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:09 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 am Changing the subject is the perfect ploy for someone who has no valid argument.

The current covid restrictioss, even more so than before, are directly based upon flawed PCR test results as are the much vaunted statements of the number of daily deaths of people who have 'tested positive' with a given number of days.

Even the so-called fact checkers have not tried to debunk the guidance notes of the World Health Organisation in respect of PCR tests. They must know that they would be open to ridicule if they did.

I am very unlikely to give any credence to the opinions of someone who doesn't even know the laws governing his own chosen hobby.

I may not know the laws governing my hobby, it's my hobby not my profession. I do know my ex-profession inside out. So if you would like any advice there please feel free to ask.

I never offered my opinion. I simply asked a question. You are showing lots of expertise in the matter so I simply ask the same question again. I am open to an answer from any of the experts on this forum.

Why was there an increase in excess deaths before any lockdown or restrictions?

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:13 pm

El Cid wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:24 am
Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:47 am Back on subject does anyone know if the 14 days perimetral lockdown release is based on being 14 days below 500?

Example Town A shows 543 on say Monday February 1st. Locked in on 3rd February.
7th still 523. 15th 380. In this case are they released on 17th? Or do they need 14 days in a row back below 500?
This from ABC Sevilla

If a municipality drops below 1,000 or 500 cases, the measures may be relaxed, provided that 14 days have elapsed since they were applied.
-If a municipality goes from an incidence of more than 500 to more than 1,000 cases, it can go from grade 1 to grade 2, even if 14 days have not elapsed. In these cases, the period of 14 days will begin to count again from the day that grade 2 came into force.


Sid
Thanks Sid. I am considering coming back to the coast and trying to second guess when my town might come out of the perimeter lockdown. So in the example above it would be free on 17th.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13752
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby katy » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:40 pm


markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:06 pm

So it seems. Some winter sports are exempt including skiing and hunting
https://www.andalucia.com/health/coronavirus

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7776
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:47 pm

Now it seems that closing the bars might be illegal if imposed by local municipals, at least here in the Basque region. Bars are open again in my municipal. There are some which have not closed due to the lower levels of infection amongst its population, especially those slightly further out but closer to the beach where many have bought because they are more affordable.

I wonder if the fact that some are on the Padron in Bilbao but living somewhere else affects these figures.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:56 pm

There was at least one mayor in Andalucía who knew that they couldn't close the bars last March before any lockdown but instead closed the beaches to prevent people coming to the chiringuitos and also withdrew the licence for terrace furniture in the town.

They don't want to do that now because we know that would force patrons indoors and indoor recirculated air spreads covid.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 11081
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:03 pm

All mandates that suppress freedoms granted under the Spanish Constitution are illegal. Restrictive mandates can only be imposed under a State of Emergency (Estado de Alarma) which is not currently in force.

Police in the UK cannot face disciplinary action for failing to obey an illegal order. In Spain the onus is on the police, Guardia Civil etc NOT to impose illegal measures or enforce illegal orders and if they do they can be sanctioned and even imprisoned. "I was only following orders" is no defense.

How many posts have we seen from members who state that they went here or there and did not even see any police or Guardia Civil let alone get stopped? Maybe the message is getting through.

I have given this link previously but I make no apology for doing so again:

https://www.policiasporlalibertad.org/

It is only in Spanish, at least at the moment, but it can be translated with an online translation facility. Members of the public can join as associate members and serving or retired police officers, Guardia Civil, fire and rescue, professional security guards etc. from whatever country can join as full members.

This gives access to their Telegram channel and also provides a number of other benefits including free legal consultation or help with psychiatric problems caused by the illegal measures imposed by the government.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Covid Restrictions Andalucia

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:08 pm

There was a six month state of alarm approved by Congress at the end of October 2020.

Has that been cancelled and I missed it?


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests