House Sale

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Beachcomber
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Re: House Sale

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:30 pm

Similar applies to moving cash between countries within the EU:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/t ... dex_en.htm

"If you want to travel between EU countries with EUR 10 000 euros or more in cash (or the equivalent in other currencies), you must check with the customs authorities in the countries you are leaving, entering and passing through whether you must declare it."

Pamela1
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Re: House Sale

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:32 pm

I bet a lot of people didn't know that about cheques either, the people we bought our property from also went back to the Uk with a bankers draught. I guess unless you dig deep and look into these things then people will be oblivious to it.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: House Sale

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:51 pm

I am presuming those that sold houses was when the UK was still in the EU

At that time there was no limit on EU cash (or simlar instrumets i.e. cheques etc) going to the UK and Spain had an unlimited amount leaving Spain and going to other EU countries.

So you can sleep well in your beds you won't be going to prison. At least not for this anyway :lolno:

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firsttango
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Re: House Sale

Postby firsttango » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:47 pm

katy wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:56 am Interesting Beachcomber, I didn’t know it included cheques. When we left Spain we had 3 bankers drafts from sale of house. We deposited 2 in our UK bank and 1 in another country. So technically we broke the law.

One time we were at the boarding gate for flight when a handler came through with a sniffer dog. It approached and sniffed everyone. Was talking to the handler and he said the dog had just completed training. Solely trained to sniff out large sums of cash.

On the whole I agree with it though with the large amount moved by drug dealers etc.
My wife has had that exact training :D

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: House Sale

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:56 pm

did she get the level 2 training in spending it or is that just a genetic trait?

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costakid
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Re: House Sale

Postby costakid » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:22 pm

It has always been worded as any financial instrument so bonds, cash, cheques and drafts etc all apply.

katy
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Re: House Sale

Postby katy » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:49 pm

An article in Sur today re. bank regulations concerning cash.

Estas son las cuatro operaciones bancarias que ponen en alerta a Hacienda
El banco tiene la obligación de informar a la Agencia Tributaria si detecta determinados movimientos de dinero sospechosos, ya sea por la cantidad que se mueve o por su inusual
si detecta ahorros no justificados, podrá abrir una investigación y hacer pagar por ellos mediante impuestos como ganancia patrimonial no justificada.
Pagos con billetes de 500 euros
Aunque desde enero de 2019 el Banco Central Europeo (BCE) no imprime billetes de 500 euros, cualquier transacción que se haga con ellos (sin importar su cuantía) será puesta en conocimiento de Hacienda. No obstante, sigue siendo un medio de pago válido, con el que puede comprar y ahorrar, pero estas operaciones tendrán una vigilancia especial para comprobar que son legales.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: House Sale

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:29 pm

This is not only cash (or cheques etc) this is a SAR (see my post above) which can be for anything. Any type of payment whatsoever, including electrónic payments, it can be from yourself to yourself even at the same bank. Basically the bank covers their ass and over reports. They are reporting everything and the authorities are getting inundated with reports now and cannot check them all. Denmark reported 10 times more SARs in 2018 vs 2010.

The authorities are putting in place automated systems to deal with it. Small example tax office in the UK (and I am sure many other countries) has a system that trawls as much financial data as they can get their hands on to search for anomalies...a case a friend who works in the industry was telling me about was somebody whose tax return had a minimal income but their credit card bill was over 200k. The machine spits this out and it is sent for manual in investigation. Turns out the guy had won the lottery!

So in short the authorities know everything and even if you live a cash only life it will stand out ....the machines will ask why you don't spend money, and that will spark an in investigation.

Manchesteral
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Re: House Sale

Postby Manchesteral » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:31 pm

The answer is simple, do you want to pay the taxes on someone elses gains ?
If the true value of the property is say 250.000 and you put the purchase price through the books at say 180.000 then you are undervaluing it by 70.000 ! The authorities are not stupid and when you come to sell the true value will be assessed by the tax authorities and you will be paying taxes on the perceived profit, so you will effectively be paying the taxes on the extra 50/70 grand, I wouldn't even entertain such a move !

Manchesteral
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Re: House Sale

Postby Manchesteral » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:36 pm

katy wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:07 pm If you pay more than around five or 6 thousand into a Spanish bank you will have to fill in a form for the Bank of Spain detailing the origin. I think I posted on here the problem when I sold my car for cash. Even 2 banks in Gibraltar declined it and my Spanish bank where we had 2 accounts.

There is another thought, could it be a scam? A friend advertised their Spanish house on a property portal and they had a few attempted scams and one was very similar. Take care.

Not sure if your info is up to date Katy, in December of last year I paid 9000 euros from a Hong kong account into a Spanish account, in January I transferred 7500 into the same account and neither movements have been questioned, yet !

katy
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Re: House Sale

Postby katy » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:02 pm

Did you transfer or pay in cash? Maybe you have a lenient bank. The day we left Spain I cleared out the bank account just over 25 thousand euro in cash. I had to go into a back room where I filled out a form for the bank of Spain, one question was what was the money for so i put for building materials.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: House Sale

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:05 pm

Just because they haven't asked you doesn't mean they have made an SAR. Indeed if the bank told you they would be committing a criminal offence.

Having said that they can ask you questions and never make an SAR. The banks all have automated systems that spit out suspicious transactions for a person to look at. If you have been making transactions in those amounts for years then they won't appear as suspicious.

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costakid
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Re: House Sale

Postby costakid » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:58 pm

over 3000 euros into a Spanish account in cash and you used to have to show photo id. May have changed but i cant see it getting any easier.

Dominic Lopecas
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Re: House Sale

Postby Dominic Lopecas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:21 pm

I have a friend that wants to move to Portugal as it is lower leaving cost and lest bureaucracy, is trying to sell his house in Cheriana (Malaga) for the past two years and so far is going no where, he has reduced the price well over 30% of asking price but nothing happens, oversees buyers aren't coming and Spanish people don't have the 60% liquidity that Banks required to get a loan, I can see a improvement in Spanish economy so they will be for longer waiting is ever happen.


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