Going off in a slight tangent from the 'English' thread!!

[Colinm]

The 'English' thread started off about language and modern speech and went through grammar, education, exams, secretaries and even typesetting!
According to Grouser the three 'R's' are being taught again in schools, so it would seem that the education system has come round the full circle.

Would it not be a good idea if the legal system also looked back at the 'old ways'?

I am sick and tired of the 'do-gooders', who claim 'deprived backgound' or 'lack of education' or 'from a single parent family' as a reason for the non punishment of some of the scum that prowl the streets these days.
Is it not relevant, that as 'softness' set into the judiciary, the volume of crime has increased?

What is the position in Spain? Are criminals released on bail, pending a court appearance, and allowed to re-offend? My impression is that the Spanish police are tougher than back home, and don't put up with the cr*p that the police do back home.

Any views?

[peteroldracer]

I have the feeling this thread might just run for a while.................

[keddyboy]

The position in Spain is diplorable re reoffending criminals. Just read the papers and see how many offenders have offended in a similar way prior to their arrest. Robbery with firearms is a good old favourite and most offenders arrested have at least 5 or 6 previous convictions for armed robbery. Sentencing here is a joke, King the english murderer was sentenced to 36 years but will be out in 8 or even less.

[Valencia_Paul]

I have heard that Spanish prisons are bursting at the seams and contain at least 50% foreign nationals. I doubt that the legal system in Spain jails more criminals than we do in the UK.

I often wonder what the opposite of a "do-gooder" is? A do-badder maybe.

[alaninspain]

Perhaps the opposite of do-gooder is New Labour. Even if the intentions are fine, the end result seems worse than before.

[toddcl]

Bring back the birch and National Service.

Change the Government? but who do you vote for as they are all the same. 'Keep the numbers down'

[peteroldracer]

toddcl: the trouble with your suggestions, great that they may be, is that the UK would have to leave the EEC to bring them in, with drastic affects for all of us living out here on pensions, health care, using British driving licences, taking back to the Uk more than 200 cigs and a bottle of wine........doesn't bear thinking about!

[Colinm]

Bring back the birch and National Service

I'm not sure about National Service. Wasn't N.S. still about (or just ended) at the time of the Spivs, Beatniks, Mods y Rockers, that the 'older folks' talk about?
I really do think the SSS (short, sharp shock) treatment would be a step forwards (even if it is backwards). Does the Isle of Man still have the cat?
Why would we have to leave the EU, why not get the EU to change its outlook? If we had immediate birching etc, the jails could be emptied and the EU could turn the jails into monuments and waste lots of money on them!

[peteroldracer]

I wish, I wish.........the Isle of Man (which I knew well, albeit at high speed!) was forced to drop the birch and all other non-compliant rules, shortly after the UK joined the EEC.
Offences such as drunken behaviour, petty larceny and minor assault increased...........(stands back in amazement!!)
Now we have parents terrified that their offspring will report them for smacking.....I hear echoes of the Gestapo in Hitler's Germany, with kapos on each block. How long before the same state is reached in the DK (Dishevelled Kingdom).?

[toddcl]

peteroldracer

I think you have found the root of the problem.
Parents are not allowed to discipline there children so they grow up undisciplined thugs.

I remember the old Woolworth Slap well, it soon sorted you out and stopped your paddy.

[FOR THOSE WHO ARE TO YOUNG]
The Woolworth Slap was where you took the child's arm, lifted so their feet were nearly of the ground and gave them a good slap across the calf muscle, followed by now you have something to cry about and if you go on you will get another. Never Failed.

[crazyred]

I had to give my eldest son a smack in Tesco's (before we came to Sapin) as he was being really destructive and as I also had his baby brother to deal with I wasn't left with much option unless I wanted to pay a huge damages bill. After I gave him a smack and he put on a huge show of crying and wailing for all the other shoppers a lady tutted and told me I should find another way to disipline my child. At the end of my tether, I picked him up, handed him to her and said "If you know a better way then YOU sort him out". She backed away and told me that he was my child & that I should sort it out. "EXACTLY! So just let me get on with dealing with my son my way otherwise he may well be the one in a balaclava mugging you in 10 years time!!!"

I don't smack my children very often and try to use other forms of discipline but sometimes it has to be done. I know the do-gooders are trying to stop child abuse but quite frankly they won't stop it by preventing disipline. Children who are beaten on a regular basis are far too frightened to tell anybody about it and the parent usually doesn't do it when there are witnesses (I have 1st hand experience as a child).

These people need to realise that there is a big difference between an abused and battered child and one who gets a swift smack when their behaviour is not acceptable.

Sorry about the rant.......

[Grouser]

Dear oh dear, what will all you hang em and flog em lot do now that Fotherington Thomas has taken over the Conservative party. "Hello clouds, hello sky, hello lovely green scribbly tree." Molesworth say "Everyone kno he is utterly wet and a weed, Chiz, Chiz."

[citymike]

peteroldracer

I think you have found the root of the problem.
Parents are not allowed to discipline there children so they grow up undisciplined thugs.

Personally, I think punishment should be more subtle. Pointing out to a teenager that you overheard their mates laughing at their spots could make them very introvert and make them retire almost permanently to their room. It depends on the child of course and you have to be careful that they don't develop an interest in handguns or weird religious cults but apart from that it lends to a peaceful life.

[citymike]

I know the do-gooders are trying to stop child abuse

When will they stop with their fiendish plans?

These people need to realise that there is a big difference between an abused and battered child and one who gets a swift smack when their behaviour is not acceptable.

Personally I always thought that there are more subtle ways of achieving well behaved children. I once toyed with the idea of raising a child in his bedroom without letting him out into the real world. My idea was to tell him that he was actually a Roman Emperor/God. He would only ever wear the robes worn by Romans, I would bow before him and update him on battles fought, and won by his generals, and he would only see films/series about Rome.

Then when he was 16 I'd let him out into the real world!! It would be a laugh, wouldn't it? He'd be confused but very well behaved

Sorry about the rant.......

I, for one, forgive you

[peteroldracer]

I think someone should write a paper and submit it to a learned journal on "The effects of excessive Cruzcampo combined with sunshine"...........

[Moving Soon]

But as with so many such studies, woudl it not result in someone being paid a handsome sum for effectively stating the bl****** obvious?

[toddcl]

citymike

The family next door kept the children at home and educated them themselves. they never went out without the parents. They were told whatever the parents thought was right. No TV etc.

When the lad was 18 he got out and promptly hanged himself.
I think the outside world was not what mum and dad had told him it would be.

[katy]

City Mike resorts to posting tongue in the cheek stuff when we are getting pompous or should I say boring old farts.

[crazyred]

I'm not sure if City Mike is taking the p*** or what and I'm certainly not pompous or a boring old *beep*. I agree there are better ways to discipline children and I will use every means possible first but, unfortunately there are times when a short sharp shock is needed. What I object to is being told by the establishment how to bring up my children as, if they turn into thieving, violent, drug taking criminals when they're older it will be me that gets the blame....

[jazper]

I had to give my eldest son a smack in Tesco's (before we came to Sapin) as he was being really destructive and as I also had his baby brother to deal with I wasn't left with much option unless I wanted to pay a huge damages bill. After I gave him a smack and he put on a huge show of crying and wailing for all the other shoppers a lady tutted and told me I should find another way to disipline my child. At the end of my tether, I picked him up, handed him to her and said "If you know a better way then YOU sort him out". She backed away and told me that he was my child & that I should sort it out. "EXACTLY! So just let me get on with dealing with my son my way otherwise he may well be the one in a balaclava mugging you in 10 years time!!!"

Excellant! I think you dealt with them both very well.