Cesspool VS Septic Tank

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MiraelCorazon
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Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby MiraelCorazon » Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:24 am

Hello everyone!

My wife and I looking to buy an inland property around Malaga and we just came across a very good option. However, unlike any other properties we have viewed so far, this one, according to the agent's words, doesn't have a septic tank but a cesspool.

After Googling and watching some brief explanations on Youtube, from what I understand cesspool is just a "pit" which regularly has to be cleaned by calling a special car (I see many people recommend here Pepe Nunez company).

So, is a cesspool the same to what they call in Spain "Pozo Negros'?

How often does it need to emptied (I guess it depends on the capacity but anyway more or less) and how much does it usually cost?

How much does it approximately cost nowadays to install a proper 3-chamber septic tank instead of this cesspool?

Thank you!

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:27 am

We've been in our campo house for 15 years and not had to have our pozo negros emptied yet...
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Bob

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Wicksey
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Wicksey » Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:49 am

It tends to be the plastic septic tanks that need emptying in our friends' experience, plus they smell (our neigbours' ones both smell awful). I've never known of a pozo negro needing emptying or any attention. We've always had pozo negros and they are sealed over with no access. They naturally drain away and the one at this house was built 23 years ago and has never been touched. Personally I'm keeping this and we don't ever want to install plastic tank (not that there's anywhere much to put one now) so we hope to sell without the need to change.

If it is a pozo negro I would just see how it goes before contemplating installing anything different. Septic tanks and pozo negros still need to be treated kindly, ie not putting things down the loo that shouldn't be. Our biggest problem is the drains within our house as they have very little drop on them. We are extremely careful with what goes down the kitchen sink for example. We've had various different types of septic tanks in the UK and France, so are very used to living with them, but never had the plastic ones with chambers. Not been on mains drainage since the 1980s!

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby El Cid » Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:59 am

Our plastic 2 chamber tank has never smelled and not been emptied in 23 years.

Sid

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby MiraelCorazon » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:39 pm

Thank you, everyone! So cesspool is exactly what they call in Spain "Pozo Negro"? I remember some months ago I was talking to the lawyer and he said that pozo negros are absolutely not permittable any longer..
Just wonder if now we buy the property the local town hall will not ask us as the new owner to install a proper 3-chamber septic....

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby casita-bonita » Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:01 pm

MiraelCorazon wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:39 pm Thank you, everyone! So cesspool is exactly what they call in Spain "Pozo Negro"? I remember some months ago I was talking to the lawyer and he said that pozo negros are absolutely not permittable any longer..
Just wonder if now we buy the property the local town hall will not ask us as the new owner to install a proper 3-chamber septic....
As I understand it they are not illegal to have in place. But you cannot sell a house with one as it now has to be a multichamber plastic affair. Friend who sold and bought a couple of years ago had to have on installed in the house he was selling, as did the vendor of the house he bought.. Had a problem with odour since it was installed.

As Wicksey noted you have to take care of you pozos. No bleach or harsh chemicals down the toilet as it kills the bugs. After winter I flush a couple of bacteria bags down the toilet to get the bugs going. You can buy these in Mercadonna. Also sugary deserts like trifle can go down the pan.

As I said 15+ years never needed attention and never smells..
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Bob

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Wicksey
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Wicksey » Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:06 pm

If a buyer doesn't want the DAFO then I guess a house will be sold as it is even if it has a pozo negro. Friends that had a septic tank installed purely to get the DAFO had it installed after the existing pozo negro. She said that she knows of people having bought houses with a septic tank, then disconnecting it and reverting to the old pozo negro as they had so many problems with the new plastic tank.

I think you had it installed properly, Sid. The problem ones I know of were just put into the ground without proper weeper pipes to remove the liquid, so they tend to fill up and not drain naturally away. I'm not sure a lot of the installers know what they are doing!

In France a Government inspector came round and carried out surveys of all 'septic tanks' (and we had to pay for it). We were told ours needed replacing but luckily, having just found a buyer for the house, we came to an agreement that the new owner would do the work if we dropped the price.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby spanish_lad » Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:54 pm

casita-bonita wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:01 pmAs I understand it they are not illegal to have in place. But you cannot sell a house with one as it now has to be a multichamber plastic affair. Friend who sold and bought a couple of years ago had to have on installed in the house he was selling, as did the vendor of the house he bought.. Had a problem with odour since it was installed.
We bought our house last year. It has a pozo negro. There was never any talk of a dafo. The house is escritura´d and on the catastro. It was built in 1990.

Maybe rules have changed ? Maybe our notary was taking a backhander? I have no clue - i did ask about it but it was shrugged off.
Alhaurin el Grande since 99, working at the airport since 2011.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Pamela1 » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:13 pm

It's Spain in general, it seems no matter what the rules and regulations are people have different experiences.I think it is all subject to areas, offices and whoever you deal with.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby dxf » Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:58 pm

Hola

I sold my illegal house which has a pozo negro (4 walls and a flat concrete roof with a gravel floor) in November 2022. It has taken this long to buy a London flat! There was a law passed that required ALL properties have a proper 3 chamber septic tank as I recollect but it wasn't enforced in many places!

For completeness, a septic tank has a number of chambers with the idea that bacteria work on the solids and the liquid that comes out of the last chamber is harmless to the soil. A septic tank usually has a number of years to describe it like a 4 man year tank. That is one person for four years or 2 people for two years after which it needs emptying and the activating stars need to be replaced as they will have been sucked out when emptying.

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gerryh
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby gerryh » Sun Apr 02, 2023 8:28 am

dxf wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 9:58 pm Hola

A septic tank usually has a number of years to describe it like a 4 man year tank. That is one person for four years or 2 people for two years after which it needs emptying and the activating stars need to be replaced as they will have been sucked out when emptying.

Davexf
Certainly not true in my experience.
I installed a 3-chamber septic tank and it hasn't been, or needed, emptying in 16 years.
Also, the activating stars would not get sucked out as they are in the final chamber. Only the first chamber would be emptied.
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Wicksey
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Wicksey » Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:27 am

If it is working properly then they shouldn't need emptying. It should work like a sewage works where the solids drop to the bottom and the bacteria in the tank deals with it, while the top liquid eventually flows out into weeper pipes and soaks away. The ones I know of here don't have the weeper pipe system installed so the tanks seem to just fill up and smell awful. We certainly know when our neighbour is in residence, and his tank must be almost 100m down the hill from us!

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Lyric » Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:44 pm

Few years ago now our Pozo split and we had raw sewage flowing down the hill.
In hindsight picked the wrong contractor and we had him back four times before he stopped the smell on my instructions.
A 'U' bend. It has never needed attention. 6 man unit.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby El Cid » Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:22 pm

I have been playing around with the new ChatGPT AI bot. I asked it for the pros and cons of both systems and this is its reply-

In Spain, there are two common types of systems for managing wastewater in rural areas: modern septic tanks and traditional pozo negros (cesspits). Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, which are discussed below:

Advantages of a modern septic tank:

Efficient: Modern septic tanks are designed to be efficient and effective at treating wastewater, ensuring that harmful pollutants are removed before the water is discharged.
Low maintenance: These systems are low maintenance and require minimal attention, which makes them convenient for homeowners.
Long-lasting: Modern septic tanks are built to last, with a lifespan of up to 50 years or more, which makes them a good long-term investment.

Disadvantages of a modern septic tank:

Cost: These systems can be expensive to install, particularly if the property does not already have an adequate drainage system in place.
Electricity: Some modern septic tanks require electricity to operate, which can increase energy costs.
Environmental concerns: The discharge from modern septic tanks can still contain pollutants, which can pose a risk to the environment if not properly treated.

Advantages of a pozo negro:

Low cost: Pozo negros are relatively inexpensive to install, and the required maintenance is minimal.
Reliable: These systems are reliable and have been used for centuries in rural areas of Spain.
Water conservation: Pozo negros do not require the use of water to operate, which can be beneficial in areas where water is scarce.

Disadvantages of a pozo negro:

Limited capacity: Pozo negros have a limited capacity, which means they need to be emptied regularly, particularly if they are being used by a large household.
Odor: These systems can produce unpleasant odors, particularly during hot weather or when they are full.
Environmental concerns: If a pozo negro is not properly maintained or emptied, it can lead to pollution of groundwater, which can be harmful to the environment.

Ultimately, the choice between a modern septic tank and a pozo negro will depend on a variety of factors, including the specific needs of the household, the location of the property, and the budget available. It is important to consult with a professional to determine which option is best for your particular situation.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Wicksey » Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:25 pm

I don't agree with the Bot's description of having a pozo negro. Ours is completely sealed and you cannot access it and it never fills up nor needs emptying. It would have backed up the drain if it had become full. Ones we've had in previous houses and friends' ones are the same. There is no inspection cover apart from to one access the drain where is exits the house, but otherwise I'm not even sure exactly where it is as it is under concrete somewhere.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby DannyB » Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:03 am

I think that one of the problems here is terminology. A cesspit is a simple tank, which will need emptying. A septic tank is a simple digesting system that breaks down the effluent and cleanish water soaks away, it may need emptying eventually if it fills up with sediment.
Pozo negro is not really a technical term and you could have anything from a sealed cesspit ,or a simple tank with some bricks knocked out, through to a proper 3 chamber septic tank.
When we bought our house we had a DAFO done and our 1 chamber tank with outflow was declared not proper and the vendor had to install a 3 chamber tank. I can't remember the cost but it wasn't horrendous. Fortunately for him there was enough space to install without removing the old one, so we have a 4 chamber system.
In the UK we live in the countryside where there are many cesspit that need emptying. One of the contractor's tankers have "This tank is full of political promises " emblazoned on the sides

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Pamela1 » Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:03 pm

We have a septic tank, one of those type which don't need emptying, i personally don't have a clue about them.It's all gobbledy *beep* to me.. :lol: .So far so good, no smells or anything going wrong.Hope it stays that way.

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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Pamela1 » Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:10 pm

Well i never, since when was g o o k classed as a beep! :lolno: or am i missing something..Perhaps it's my northern slang.. :lol:

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chrissiehope
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby chrissiehope » Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:53 pm

I think it was a derogatory term for a Vietnamese, used by the Americans during the '60s war ...
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Re: Cesspool VS Septic Tank

Postby Pamela1 » Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:48 am

Ah ok Chrissie, good explanation although it never entered my mind..


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