Defection

[spanish hopes]

So I guess you don't share her views then Kenny.

[Karipentti]

political refugees and economic migrants

A couple of well used politically correct sound bites here eh?

IMHO, those claiming political asylum/persecution/looking for work are taking successive governments as mugs. Whatever their origin, to get into the U.K., they would have to have passed through umpteen other free european countries with democratically elected governments to get here. So why have they chosen the U.K. which is the most westerly point of europe? --I think we all know the answer-benefits

Would one of the reasons be that you're not required to carry an ID in Britain?

[frank]

frank ... do tell me the research that proves the Brits are more generous re giving donations for disaster relief situations ...

and it is one thing to give money to some remote cause ... yet another to live as friendly neighbours with Muslim, West Indian, Asian people ...

Whilst the UK is a way down the list, bear in mind these are the top contributors and illustrates the point that with the exception of Saudi Arabia, no Arab or Middle/Far Eastern countries figure in the list. As usual it's mainly European countries that are throwing dosh in the pot. No surprises that France comes last mind!
Oh, by the way, you never answered whether you have renounced your British citizenship!


Donations in absolute terms, showing that Norwegians donated the most per head of population ($13.20) followed by the Swedes ($12.04), the Dutch ($9.16) the Australians ($5.23) and so on, down to the Americans with a donation of $1.08 per head, and the French, whose per head donation amounted to 80 US cents. The Observer table places Saudi Arabs in the middle of the pack, at No. 6 with a donation of $4 per head, but still outranking Canadians, Austrians, Brits, Greeks, Americans and French in their generosity.

[frank]

Gavilan......................you openly say you despise Britain on a forum frequented by mainly Brits, and yet want to put your warped view on how the UK should be run forward.

With the hate she/he has festering inside her/him for all things British, I'm a bit at a loss as to what he/she is doing in a predominately brit forum.

[gavilan]

Campo Kenny: I did not say I despised Britain, I said I did not like being British ... there is a difference
and to frank: I do not have hate festering inside me for all things British ...

I am surprised by the emotional reaction to my comments (thought it was only women who got emotional in arguments!) nor do I understand why you get so uptight about immigration and immigrants when you clearly have sufficient funds to buy a property in Spain and so can escape when you want to ...

it is a lovely sunny day today and I have lots of things to do outside so these are my final comments ... hasta luego

[Julie]

I agree with campo Kenny, I think the British system is wrong, I don't mind helping any genuine case, but the UK in my opinion is a joke, as far as the benefits system is concerned.
On the news yesterday, it was reported that immigrants given a jail sentence can chose to do there sentence in the UK or go home and do their sentence, 109 people out of 11 thousand decided to go to their home country, I don't think they should have a choice, if one goes to another country to live and abuses that, then they shouldn't be there.

[silver]

I'm Spanish 'integrated'......But I'm British, Born and Bred.....and Proud of it........!!!

I'm Spanish 'integrated'......But I'm British, Born and Bred... Proud..why???I did not wish..choose..or make any effort to be born in any particular place.....
being born in a stable does not make you a horse... I am not Proud or ashamed of where I was born........ I am proud to be me .

[Gogs]

Politics and religion stir strong emotions.
The British population were asked if they thought Eastern European immigrants were a problem.
23% said "yes it is a serious problem"
77% said"czesk bardzo mi milu gdzie djest toaldta"

From another forum - just thought I'd lighten the mood a little.

[Grouser]

Oh dear, oh dear oh very dear.
Re: Waffle
Groan
Just to try and shed a little light where there seems to be darkness I was trying to point out that you couldn’t construct meaningful arguments about things that affect whole countries by extrapolating from limited personal or second hand experience.

In the case of Gavilan’s experiences of racism and intolerance, these vile people exist unfortunately in most countries. They are thankfully generally in a minority, one that is hopefully dwindling, it seems to me therefore to be unreasonable to build on this and label the UK and the bulk of its citizens in this way.

In the case of Kenny’s statement about his wife’s experiences similar criteria apply. You cannot base an attitude or a theory about immigration and whether it is working or not on limited personal experience. I assume that Kenny is talking about Polish people, or the recent new members of the Common Market. Prior to their joining there was much raving and scare stories of a bigoted nature in certain sections of the tabloid press. As far as I can understand it although many Poles did indeed come to Britain, of these a large number were students who did holiday work fruit picking etc. and then returned home. Another large amount came over here, worked and then returned also, to start up businesses in Poland. Of the remainder many will also return to Poland while some will stay and hopefully be integrated into the community. The influx of these people has, apparently been a very healthy boost to the economy, probably far outweighing the negative effect of the scroungers who tagged along with them.

Obviously immigration needs controls. We are a small country with a large population. The European Union appears to be trying to address this problem with something called a blue card scheme. This would enable Europe to select only potential immigrants with the skills it needs. Is this a good idea do you think? I have severe reservations, as unfortunately the very people it would cherry pick are the people who would be the most useful to the countries they are trying to escape from. Immigration is a complex and intractable problem and the debate is not well served by emotive argy bargy.

[frank]

I take it that's a "no" then regarding the renouncing of British citizenship!

[Grouser]

Bit confused here Frank, was that referring to my posting above?
As I said before UK, Spain, I like 'em both and quite a few other countries too.

[JAKE M]

I decided to opt out of this thread on the basis that there are a couple of wind up merchants contributing. On second thoughts, maybe not a couple.Has anyone else noticed a distinct similarity,style and terminology between Gavilan and Princess Peach?
By the way Gavilan, I can only assume from your inept rantings that you are a retired social worker/local council employee/or indeed a member of the placenta eating sisterhood .

[frank]

In the case of Gavilan’s experiences of racism and intolerance, these vile people exist unfortunately in most countries.

If she left UK to escape racism, IMHO, she has picked the wrong country, I find Spain far more racist than the UK. Whilst the UK has been accepting immigrants for hundreds of years, Spain has been booting them out. Very reluctantly, due to having one of the lowest birthrates in the world, they have now had to accept a sudden surge of them. Read a few Spanish forums if in any doubt, they don't go much on immigrants.
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/294218/ ... r/ecuador/
Even reading a forum about Alonso and Hamilton, Hamilton is frequently referred to as "el negro" o "el negrito"

[frank]

Bit confused here Frank, was that referring to my posting above?
As I said before UK, Spain, I like 'em both and quite a few other countries too.

No, not at all! Gavilan asked me a question, I answered it. But having asked her twice if she had given up her British citizenship, she's gone all shy!
This misunderstanding is due to the fact that I normally quote the post I am answering, but as big brother on here keeps sending me PM's telling me not to quote, as it's obvious which post I am answering!
Sorry!

[Grouser]

Well well Jake M, a fully paid up member of the emotive argy bargy gang I see. Why not try addressing a few of the points made with clear and cogent argument it's so much more rewarding for everybody.

[Campo Kenny]

Grouser, I seriously admire how you do try and keep a logical head when emotive topics arise......I'm not joking I mean it.

However I can see why Jake has taken the stance he has...........he was told that along with myself and another he is the reason why Gavilan wants to leave the UK.

Rhetoric like that will always gain a response don't you think


Kenny

[laclotte]

I have just one very simple question........has to be kept simple as I'm a blond.
What has all this 'junk' got to do with Andalucia
Why do you not post your ideas/feelings/proposals on an English forum

I'm sure most of the non-Brits ADC users could not give a hoot about your immigration problems......if that is how you see them.
Maybe on reading just how some of you react you can understand how I cringe when people as me if I'm British. No, I reply, I just speak English. Funny how 90% of the time their attitude to me then changes.....in a positive manner


I'm NOT British, Born and Bred.....and Proud of it........!!!

[Campo Kenny]

What was that little outburst for?

Tena lady sitting awkwardly

[laclotte]

Nah.........I'm feeling great today up here in the mountains.
Just cannot 'stand' whinging Poms as the Brits were referred to earlier in this post.
If you love the UK so much....go back. If you don't like the place (UK) ... leave. For those that chose to live between countries.... it is normally for fiscal reasons.

Question : Why do Brits complain so much?
Answers below:

How can you tell when a plane load of poms has arrived?
When the engines are switched off you can still hear the whining.

What's a pom's favourite drink?
Whine!

edited for a spelling mistake..........wouldn't want the rusty old racer to have a field day

[Campo Kenny]

For those that choice to live between countries.... it is normally for fiscal reasons.

Yep, you've sussed me.........I have a holiday place in Spain because I can buy top quality broad beans at a fraction of the cost of the UK.

Well done

Kenny