Support for Beachcomber

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
gavilan
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Support for Beachcomber

Postby gavilan » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:58 pm

Spain and Italy ... in reality Spain is years ahead of Italy .... far from 'on its knees'

Beachcomber
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Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:07 pm

Only comparatively. If I was the prime minister of a European country that was being compared to Italy I would consider it an insult.

What makes you think that, Kenny? Was it something I said? :D

gavilan
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Postby gavilan » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:47 pm

Beachcomber: for someone who is so meticulous, logical and perceptive with so many of your responses ... what happens to you when you come to comment on politics?!

and for someone like me who despairs of local politics and planning issues, those articles in the Guardian gave me another perspective on Spain and gave me hope!

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Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:57 pm

I hope that your hope is well founded.

I stand by my view of Zapatero and his brand of socialism which has led to the systematic destruction of the economy and ethos of this country over the past four years.

I did not have the same view of the government of Felipe González whom I admired and respected.

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Postby citymike » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 pm

Beachcomber wrote:Spain and Italy... yes, a perfect comparison but what an indictment!

Apart from the fact that I consider the first of Grouser's points to be a con rather than a pro let's also consider: failing (or failed) economy, housing market in tatters, rising unemployment (50.000 last month alone), appeasement of terrorists (even after the bombings at Madrid airport and resulting in the recent murder of a member of his own party), failure to control immigration (and I mean immigration from third world countries as opposed to free movement of citizens of member states within Europe), encouraging people to have more children by giving them our money while the rest of the world is trying to avoid a population explosion.

Rodríquez (Zapatero) is a vile, anti-monarchist, atheist, demagogue with delusions of grandeur who has no place in Spanish politics and why would a country's prime minister allow his photograph to appear on the cover of a homosexual magazine three time in one month? As one commentator put it "It's not surprising, Zapatero would sell his own @rse for a few votes".

He has already brought Spain to its knees and four more years of him and his socialist maniacs will see it on its back in the gutter.
Property will be a lot cheaper

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Postby Grouser » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:24 pm

Thought you might like to see what the BBC has to say about Spanish Policy on Illegal Immigration.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5080316.stm
A more balanced view perhaps?
On the first of my points Beachcomber would you not agree that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal one based as it was on spurious 'intelligence' reports?
Grouser

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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:39 pm

If I had written a post that long I don't think anyone would have reached the end of it; that report is nearly two years out of date and no, I would not.

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Postby citymike » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:53 pm

Just a minute! You believe that the war in Iraq was justified on the basis of the intelligence reports? Or you believe that, despite Blair and Bush now agreeing that the reports were false, does not mean that the war was illegal? Or that there was another justifiable reason to go to war?

I have the funny feeling, well it makes me laugh, that in the next year or so you will call our defeat and retreat from Iraq an honourable withdrawal.

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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:57 pm

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the war in Iraq, and that is not under discussion here, the decision to withdraw Spanish forces was a cowardly and selfish act which placed extra unnecessary pressure on those with the courage to stay and see it through to the end.

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Postby BENIDORM » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:04 pm

I fully agree with you Beachcomber..!

citymike
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Postby citymike » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:53 pm

Beachcomber wrote:Whatever the rights or wrongs of the war in Iraq, and that is not under discussion here, the decision to withdraw Spanish forces was a cowardly and selfish act which placed extra unnecessary pressure on those with the courage to stay and see it through to the end.
You were asked:

On the first of my points Beachcomber would you not agree that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal one based as it was on spurious 'intelligence' reports?

And I believe you responded, but my mistake.

As regards withdrawing troops, I don't think you can fully discuss the matter without considering the legality of the war.

And as for cowardly, when I see the children of those that take the decision to go to war actually fighting there, or them taking that decision after a fine career in the military themselves, then I'll consider the matter relevant.

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Postby peteroldracer » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:35 pm

That is possibly one of the most optimistic thoughts I have ever read - the very idea of a modern politician having the slightest experience of the field they are "in charge" of - revolutionary........................ :roll:
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

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Postby Grouser » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:15 pm

First I would say that the illegality or not of the war in Iraq is central to any argument about posting troops there. If the war is illegal, and I see no evidence to support an alternative view then a government who sends troops there and indeed the troops themselves, are performing a criminal act which could, if there were real even handed justice in the world find them in court in the Hague. So pragmatism might be a better description than cowardice.
Furthermore the inept conduct of the US in the post war period, disbanding the Iraq army and destroying the government infrastructure there, despite strong advice to the contrary from members of their coalition of the 'willing'' put all the occupying troops at far greater risk. This policy was an utter disaster and in my opinion indicates a detachment from reality bordering on the insane. Given that, it seems perfectly acceptable that any politician or soldier in his right mind would turn all his mental faculties to extricating himself from that situation mas rapido. Again not cowardice but pragmatism.
On the link to the BBC report on immigrants I do not quite understand how the fact that it was written in 2006 detracts in any particular way from the relevance of the opinions expressed.
With regard to a couple of Beachcombers other points:
'Zapatero is an atheist.'
Surely a good thing. We have only to look at what religion has done in Spanish History for numerous reasons why. The inquisition, Spanish colonial practice in the New World, and the Catholic Church's grip on politics in Spain, hand in hand with the monarchy to name but three.
'His picture on homosexual magazine covers'
And your problem with this is?
Grouser

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Postby katy » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:42 pm

According to exit polls on TV looks as though Zapatero has it in the bag!

Illegal war :?: so what, is it ok to go and kill people if it's a legal one :roll:

Campo Kenny

Postby Campo Kenny » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:20 pm

katy wrote:
Illegal war :?: so what, is it ok to go and kill people if it's a legal one :roll:
It's one of those clever modernist sayings Katy, I certainly don't know what it means.

WW2 must have been illegal too but we never had the same guys around then who invented these stupid sayings.

Kenny

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Postby Jool » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:58 pm

so **apatero got back in, just how bad do you think it is Beachcomber, only 12 seats (or whatever they are called) in it at time of writing?

I am really depressed now especially as Andalucia are PSOE again, anyone want to buy a house in Andalucia?

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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:21 pm

Well, perhaps we should hope that we do not live to regret it. On the other hand perhaps we should just hope that we do!

One consolation is that, at this moment, they do not have an overall majority.

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Postby Jool » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:25 pm

14 up on PP though although PP have gained on last time. Why aren´t we allowed to vote? I cannot vote in UK and not allowed to vote here, where I pay my taxes etc. can we do anything about being disenfranchised by the spanish? Isn´t this against EU law? (Not that Spain would take any notice)

I hear JDA also lost some representation to the PP but still have majority so it won´t make much difference......final count not in yet, I need some brandy now...

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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:36 pm

The reason we are unable to vote is down to the UK government. Spain grants reciprocal voting rights to citizens of countries in which Spaniards are allowed to vote.

For example, Norwegians are allowed to vote in Spanish general and regional elections because Spaniards are allowed to vote in Norway.

Currently 16 between PP and PSOE with 28 held by minority parties but PP has a majority of six over the PSOE in the Senate..

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Postby Jool » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:43 pm

Is this better than before or not in terms of **apatero not getting it all his own way and having to get support from others (and he is very much like Mr Bean)? I don´t know the breakdown of previous government. Do you know why UK does not allow spanish to vote? I feel really frustrated that there was nothing I could do to influence this.....


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