latest info on Spain - depressing...............

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
Miro
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Re: Recession

Postby Miro » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:30 pm

ICCSL wrote:One of the reasons why the Spaniards are not as aware as one might believe of what has gone on in the construction and property sales area is that they do not know, and could not conceive of, what a Brit will do to a Brit.


Well, yes, that's certainly true to some extent. I have tried (and failed) to find out if any Spaniards have had their homes demolished or land grabbed, and you can't help wondering whether the stories we regularly get in the English press aren't reciprocated in the Spanish press for the simple reason that only foreigners are targeted for such cases. I hope not, but you do have to wonder.
But as for Spaniards being unaware of the overall situation with regards to the planning and construction industry, I don't see how anyone can claim it's a "Brit" problem, when the root of it can be traced back to the town halls and corrupt planning officials etc., who are ALL Spanish.
Last edited by Miro on Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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scarlet
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Postby scarlet » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:40 pm

MIRO. there was a spanish house demolished in cartama, a couple of years ago, and also one in granada before that, both made spanish papers and tv news, the one in cartama had reporters from a lot of spanish tv stations, to say the spanish dont know about it is not true, they do know, and sometimes are not bothered as they never intend to sell their property. Spanish know everything thats going on and the way round a lot of problems, but are not always willing to share their knowledge with the foreigners. I think their is another spanish house due for demolition now, he said he built it for his daughter or son,cant remember where though.

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ICCSL
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Recession

Postby ICCSL » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:40 pm

I did not say that the Spaniards were not aware of the illegalities in the construction area, what I said was that they would not believe that the Brits who bought these houses did not know that they were illegal. This is also the view of the Environment minister. We, as Brits, know that most of the Brits did not know that what they were buying was illegal. However, the Spaniards who buy illegal properties KNOW they are illegal and if they sell the property on would expect the buyer or the buyer's solicitor to know.
Tina

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Postby DecorDiva » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:14 am

Wicksy I have been laughing about the shiny 4 x 4 comment it is just so true!!!!!!!!!!!

Jool
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Postby Jool » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:50 am

Hi Cassandara, thanks for your support and it is hard to get due payment for work done here isn´t it, more so than elsewhere in the world.

Bongtrees, thanks for the advice. I have tried speaking to the bank, they say nothing they can do, no flexibility, pay the mortgage or go 100% unemployed when they may give me a mortgage holiday. As I am working and need to keep the possibility of income open (to be able to eat) I cannot do that....if this carries on I may have no choice in the end but the paro does not cover mortgage payments over here as I understand and there are no other social benefits to help out.......? If we can get to the end of this year we will have other income kicking in and we should just about be able to ride it out but the bank just does not want to know.......I hope to be able to post positive news on here soon......I am giving it until the end of April to actually get some money in.........then review

68% increase in business closures in first quarter of this year compared to 2007 so at least I know I am not alone in struggling......that was this morning´s cheerful statistic especially for Julian (!!)

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depressed

Postby julian » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:32 pm

if you want an idea for a good business in this economic climate, you could open a councelling centre for depressed andalucia.com members, at this rate you will produce many clients for your business

scarlet
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Postby scarlet » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:40 pm

what a flippant remark, julian.
one of these days you may disappear up your own *beep*.

j4mes
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Postby j4mes » Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:42 pm

lol.....Mrs A is a counsellor!

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toyotadesigner
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Postby toyotadesigner » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:18 pm

68% increase in business closures in first quarter of this year compared to 2007 so at least I know I am not alone in struggling


Do you have any source for this information? I'd be very much interested!
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toyotadesigner
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Postby toyotadesigner » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:08 pm

After reading the first two pages now, I've changed my plans. Initially I intended to rent a shop to set up a studio and an office in the walking area of downtown somewhere.

After reading your comments I thinks it'll be wiser to postpone this plan and run my biz as I've done it the last 3 years (from home).

On the other hand: just heard that the 4th bank went bankrupt in Germany, now being 'taken over' for 1 Euro from a larger competitor. Uncle Sam is selling some parts of his gold reserves.

I think the situation is identical all over Europe: Uncle Sam sneezed and Europe will catch a severe flu.

All I can hope for is that the European monetary system (Euro) won't collapse. There is too much 'virtual' money flowing around the globe, gaining profits only on the screens of the banks and the stock exchanges. This time it's a very big bubble.

Over here (Balearic Islands) the bubble starts to implode as well, but the media tries to calm down the residents, and the realtors talk about 'fantastic value gains for large and pricey luxury estates'.

All this and the fact that more than 90% of the Spanish families have a debt of 98% of their net income, the future doesn't look very nice. But what the heck, life will still be better on the peninsula than in Germany or anywhere else. At least we don't have to spend a fortune in heating costs <sigh>, and the costs of living are much more affordable in Spain than in any north European country.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.



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scarlet
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Postby scarlet » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:20 pm

surely the balerics are better than the costa del sol, I love Ibiza, but havent been there for about 5 years, so its probably changed, Ibiza town is wild, but itis a very spiritual place, away from san antonio.

PaulaJean
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Postby PaulaJean » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:53 pm

toyotadesigner wrote: the fact that more than 90% of the Spanish families have a debt of 98% of their net income.


What does this statistic mean? If your net income is 10000€ you have a debt of 9000€? :? If that is the case debt is quite low!

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Postby MarkF » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:55 pm

Jool wrote:Hi Cassandara, thanks for your support and it is hard to get due payment for work done here isn´t it, more so than elsewhere in the world.


Jool, I work for myself and reading your comments reminds me of being in a similar situation. I had good customers who had the potential to provide good future business for me, trouble is, they didn't pay me until it suited them and I was often more than a little skint. I didn't want to offend them by taking legal action to recover my money for fear of losing the future revenue.......

It took a change of accountant to have my thoughts "corrected" and the error of my ways clearly pointed out :lol: You have done the work and you deserve payment, perhaps it's time to take legal action?

Really hope some cash starts coming your way soon.

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Cassandra
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Postby Cassandra » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:08 pm

Jool, I don't know what work you do but is there anyway you could ask for a deposit or even payment in advance? The lady who does our taxes expects a cheque in full payment at our initial appointment each year, so she knows she can re-cover her initial outlay , which is probably the bulk of her costs, very quickly.

Other than that have you considered de-registering and/or declaring yourself unemployed? You would still be able to chase for monies owed as you were correctly registered when the invoices were due. This would at least save you the autonomo payments and you could start again later when things pick up.

And apologies if I'm stating the obvious, it's just that sometimes I get so bogged down in problems I don't always think as clearly as I normally would and a fresh pair of eyes can help.

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toyotadesigner
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Postby toyotadesigner » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:11 pm

It just means they have to pay 98% of their net income for their debts - month for month, for years to come. Based on the information they got from the banks and realtors that they will be sell their property 2 years later for twice the amount, many of them couldn't resist. This system used to work for a couple of years, but times and markets have changed. Now they can't sell their property for the 'promised' prices and got stuck. Same situation as in the US with the sub primes.

Even with an income of 10 k per month (which is highly unrealistic in Spain) you can't afford your life anymore with these debts. You'll be nailed to the next wall from your friendly banker...

BTW, if I close a deal I always ask for 50% downpayment, another 25% after half of the work is done and the rest upon delivery. If the clients neglects, I tell him I'll be better off laying my b*tt into the sun than spending good money and a lot of time to get the 'bad money'. Simple as that because I'm not a bank and don't give credits.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.



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Bongtrees
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Postby Bongtrees » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:16 pm

toyotadesigner wrote:BTW, if I close a deal I always ask for 50% downpayment, another 25% after half of the work is done and the rest upon delivery. If the clients neglects, I tell him I'll be better off laying my b*tt into the sun than spending good money and a lot of time to get the 'bad money'. Simple as that because I'm not a bank and don't give credits.



I am sorry to say it and I dont know what your line of trade is but I cannot see any situation at the moment where I would be prepared to pay anyone 50% up front for anything.

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Postby MarkF » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:19 pm

toyotadesigner wrote:I'm not a bank and don't give credits.


Good advice, took me a while to realise that, my life and my bank account have been a lot healthier since. :D

Jool
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Postby Jool » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:22 pm

Toyota Designer - ref is it was official quarterly statistic from spanish government on spanish teletext last night, sorry I don´t remember the name of the department

Jool
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Postby Jool » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:26 pm

Mark and Cassandra - thank you. I have toughened up a lot and protect myself a lot more now but the legal system is so slow here for enforcements...........and I am looking at doing something else more global now and not just dependent on Spain for customers. So Once I have some money in will be spreading my net a lot wider........

Toyota Designer (TD) - what is your business if you can get people to pay you this much upfront? You must have a rarity value to do this?

We have hardly had any rain all week and sun is shining again.......

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toyotadesigner
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Postby toyotadesigner » Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:27 pm

I am sorry to say it and I dont know what your line of trade is but I cannot see any situation at the moment where I would be prepared to pay anyone 50% up front for anything.


I'm an industrial designer and photographer. I'll show my references, samples and all the nine yards to prove I'm a real professional. If a client doesn't want to see the reality, I can't help and care for the next client.

Did you ever have a chance to taste a bread (tomatoes, beer, you name it) before you've put the cash on the counter? With your way of thinking (no trust at all) I wonder how you could manage to survive until today, because no baker or supermarket would have handed out his commodities to you before you paid for it.
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.



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