latest info on Spain - depressing...............

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
Paula
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2333
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:02 pm

Postby Paula » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:33 pm

I know we knock the media in UK, but as long as you read a few different newspapers, coupled with documentarys and decent news channels, we do get (I hope) a fairly accurate picture of whats what around the world, and most certainly on our doorstep. We lived in the US for a few years and it was hard to find a paragraph in the news relating to anything outside of America.
I think whats being said here is right, it would appear that the Spanish don't really know whats going on in their own backyard.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 12276
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Postby katy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:47 pm

I don't think the spanish care as long as its happening to foreigners. There is a lot of xenaphobia around especially where the Brits are concerned

scarlet
Resident
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: cartama

Postby scarlet » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:06 pm

The british all moan about the state of the uk, they blame the immigrants, but if the unemployed lazy sods worked in the thousands of jobs available, the immigrants would soon go home, as there wouldnt be any jobs for them. Its the same when the asians, jews etc came to the uk, many started businesses worked long hours, and were sucessful, the british could also have had their success if they got off there bums, many dont even vote. from what I have seen on the tv, I would probably prefer an immigrant neighbour to some of the british that live there.

j4mes
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:14 am

Postby j4mes » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:59 am

I dont think it's quite that simple!!! I know people in the UK who are not working and on benefits.....if they went and worked doing the same job a Polish person is doing for the same money, they would lose thier benefits because they are working and be financially worse off (and remember, the English folk who were working and lost thier jobs, have a level of income they need to maintain to pay mortgages, rent, taxes etc), however the Polish chap who turns up, is given housing, a car etc, can afford to work for pittance and still have money to send home!

I don't blame the Polish (sorry to use them as an example) if they can move, get a job, work hard and increase thier own financial status then why wouldn't they....I think it's a problem created by the Gov and I don't see how it can be resolved!

Jool
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4915
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 5:56 am
Location: Coastal Almeria

Postby Jool » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:09 am

I think it is easy to solve, treat everyone equally. WE get no help from Spain on arrival, nor do any other immigrants, we are expected to pay our own way so its on a fairer start point, and pretty tough. You have to be hard working and motivated to make a go of it moving to Spain if you need to work.

Change benefit rules in the UK so no foreigners receive more than the indigenous population would and then it would create a more stable less resentful society. When we were in the UK my son reached working age and we had heard there were grants available to help youngsters get transport to get to work (poor public transport in our area). He was eligible on every count apart from the fact he was british and lived in Britain. Had he just arrived from abroad we would have had a few thousand towards getting him a car..........says it all really and they wonder why there is so much resentment. Here in Spain there is no help for anyone or what there is is on an equal basis. In the UK immigrants get first bit of the cherry so of course can work their way out of poverty more easily. Its a few years along when immigrants start getting homes of their own etc that the feel the pinch, not at the beginning when tax payers money is given away to all who ask, so long as you are not indigenous population.........

THe dipsticks on GMTV this morning claiming housing benefit against the council as they cannot pay their rent and council are refusing them as they won 100,000GBP last year and saw no reason why they should save some of it as they only got 300 to 400 per month interest...........a culture is evident of believing everyone has rights but no responsibilities to themselves or to society......they genuinely could not see why they were being refused........

I am definitely becoming a GOW........(grumpy old woman)

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Postby Wicksey » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:18 am

Blimey ... I actually agree with you Scarlett :shock: There was a programme on a few weeks ago and although the immigrant workers interviewed were doing long hours in order to get the overtime, they were getting a good wage - over 2,000 pounds per month (that sounds pretty good to me). They asked Brits signing on if they would go and pick veg and they basically told the interviewer to get lost! I'm not sure that immigrants arriving in the UK are 'given' a car - if that's the case I think I'll emigrate to the UK and see what they give me :wink:

I know a couple of local Spaniards who used to say that if you were Spanish you would get away with building illegally, but if you were a foreigner you would get a big fine. Somehow, an old neighbour of ours (ex-local policeman - say no more!) got 'permission' to build a huge house (still in construction) in Torrox campo and the other Spanish neighbours are all jumping up and down complaining because they've been told they can only build 24m2, so in some cases they are getting a taste of the unfairness of it all.

scarlet
Resident
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: cartama

Postby scarlet » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:17 am

I dont think they all get houses and cars, if that was the case why are some living in parks etc, I dont agree with them being given benefits, but some are starting businesses, and because they will work the hours will come out on top. their own people will support them, which is something the english dont always do here. Its the muslims I have a problem with, making so many demands, a friend of ours works for telecom, and had to go on a course on how to treat the muslim employees and not upset them, and everytime they had their radio on , a muslim guy would always turn it off, along with all the other things they demand it is very wrong, in Spain they dont make these demands, because they know they wouldnt get it. We listen to james whale at night and I am amazed how anyone can bear to live there, just listening to all the rules etc, exhausts me.
Its like the uk is trying to destroy everything, or wants everyone to emmigrate, then you come to spain and get treated badly, I feel like a refugee.

j4mes
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:14 am

Postby j4mes » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:20 am

Did they tell the people that were signing on that for picking fruit they could earn this and then they still declined?!

I have done worse jobs for less money in hours of need to provide for my family!!!

Re the car thing, a good friend of my dad's runs a pugeot dealership in east london and he says that at least half of the car's he sells are the smallest cheapest cars they offer (c6k) and are paid with a cheque from the Gov and are to immigrants!!

I don't know the qualifying criteria, but I do know he is taking these cheques for vehicles regularly!!!

scarlet
Resident
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: cartama

Postby scarlet » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:37 am

Thats disgusting, do you think we could try that here, after all it is europe, I doubt it. someone said on here that you can get benefits in spain if needed, no we are lovely immigrants every country should want us, as we just spend spend spend. The trouble with spain is they want us to buy property, furnish it etc, but dont want us to actually live here.

Jool
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4915
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 5:56 am
Location: Coastal Almeria

Postby Jool » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:55 pm

Precisely James, I´m fine about helping people but why isn´t it fair and equal on everyone? THat was exactly the deal that was on offer re cars when we lived in the UK....... Employers get fined by tribunals for not treating employees equally so why isn´t the government taken to Court by someone for its in-built discrimination against indigenous tax paying population.....

As for religious sensitivities, you either accept the working conditions or you don´t......if it was a moslem country people would have to accept moslem custom the other way round.......but then minorities are more worthy than the majority as they are easier to manipulate and make political capital from........

j4mes
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:14 am

Postby j4mes » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:25 pm

I'm with you jool, however I think it's gone sooo far I can't see a way around it...

Thing is, the immigrants take full advantage of the Gov (why wouldn't they) and if you're a pole, romanian etc arriving in the UK, there are simple easy to read booklets informing you on how to gain every last benefit available to you, in your own language).... Have you ever tried to claim for anything in the UK?? the system is soo difficult and misleading and there is no one that actually says to you, right, you need to do this this and this in order to get this this and this....which of course then leads to english people moaning that their foreign counter parts get more!!

I know a polish guy who went to sign up for his benefits. He was dealt with at the benefits office by another polish person (again useful for him to deal with someone in his language), however (and heres where I got annoyed), the person WORKING FOR THE GOV (the polish lady) advised him to make a claim for child care costs for children he didnt have!!! She told him if he advised her that he had 2 children in Poland, who were being cared for by his wife, he was entitled to claim for them. When he told her his wife was here, she suggested he could claim if the grandparents/aunts or uncles were looking after them (a lack of resources to investigate all of this claims means they are simply processed without being substantiated)!!!! blatant extortion of a countries resources!!! and whilst I know this may be an isolated incident, how can one tell??

I am all for helping genuine refugees, even allowing those who want to change country and work for a better life (after all, this is what I am doing!) however what I don't think is right are those who come to the UK, and simply drain the sytstem...

User avatar
Wicksey
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:21 pm
Location: Axarquia coast

Postby Wicksey » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:49 pm

It's amazing what Britain seems to be providing for the immigrants, I must admit. Having had to jump through hoops and pay nearly 200€ the other week to renew my British passport that I've had for over 30 years, my OH joked that it would be quicker and cheaper to go back to the UK and claim political asylum :wink: It also seems unfair that as a resident here I cannot join the NHS in Spain, but also cannot return to the UK for treatment either, so where am I entitled to get my free treatment I paid my National Insurance Contributions for?

Britain is just far to soft and far too PC for my liking. I like the French approach that they apply their laws without worrying if it may offend anyone (like the banning of Muslim headscarves in schools etc). I've had Muslim friends in the past and they never kept going on about their religious beliefs, but nowadays I cannot believe some of the things I read that they are trying to ban in the UK in case it offends some minority (like all things to do with Christmas). I don't know how true some of the stories are, but you do hear of people not being allowed to fly the Union Jack in case it upsets someone ....... can you imagine that happening here where I often see the Spanish and/or Andalucian flags flying above people's houses.

olive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3432
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm
Location: Poniente, Granada

Postby olive » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:50 pm

I had a good chat with a Spanish farmer yesterday.

There must be a lot of help for farmers in the form of cheap loans or government grants as around here there are two types. Traditional with a small amount of land where time stands still and the other where they are aquiring more land and planting more trees. The second type are aquiring new machinery almost every day e.g. turbo sprayers that are operated by the driver only doing away with two other peoples jobs. Air con tractors instead of their old open tractor. they also have got a new 4x4 but have kept the little Citroen or Renault van

As far as politics was concerned the lot in power now were good for the country. He could see no wrong. After all they were now getting a new hospital, roads, parks, pavements, palms and so on. They never had thoise under the last lot. He had no knowledge whatsover of land grab, demolition, law of the costas but had heard of marbella corruption.

He is very insular in so far as his world is his olive groves (that he will pass onto his sons and daughters), his town and as far as he is concerned Andalucia is the best part of Spain. He has been to other parts of Spain but not abroad. He had a friend who went to London and nearly starved as the food was terrible!

So don't expect support from your average Spaniard for the plight a lot of North Europeans find themselves in. They all think we are RICH.

As far as the benefits system in the UK is concerned it seems to me that it is a travesty that so much is given out. I think we all know examples of single mothers who have never done a days work. I bet single mothers in spain get very little. Yet if you go to make a claim yourself you don't qualify for anything other than jobseekers allowance for a few weeks.

Someone lost their job the other day, had to sell their Audi A6 and the person turning up to buy had a government cheque. He rang up to check it was real. It was and it cashed.

There will always be grafters who will do the jobs no one else wants to do or is prepared to do. Those will be some of the people on the rich list in twenty years time. Everyone moaned about the Indians, Kenyans, Pakistanis and Jews first time round.

All very disheartening, I think I will go and lie down.

olive

Miro
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 3523
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: Merseyside, formally Torremolinos

Postby Miro » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:38 pm

Who is James Whale? :shock:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

scarlet
Resident
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: cartama

Postby scarlet » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:35 pm

James Whale is a famous dj, presenter, in england, he is really outspoken and slating the mp s, immigration, says what he thinks, he is on talk sport
radio station, from 11pm, it is quite funny.

mijas-lady
Resident
Posts: 294
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:11 am

Postby mijas-lady » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:22 pm

take it its on sky radio-which channel thanks

scarlet
Resident
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm
Location: cartama

Postby scarlet » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:49 pm

number 0108, its sport during the day, and normal from 11.pm,

fizzbang
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:19 pm

Postby fizzbang » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:16 am

James Whale is a famous dj, presenter, in england, he is really outspoken and slating the mp s, immigration, says what he thinks, he is on talk sport
radio station, from 11pm, it is quite funny.
:!:

JAKE M
Resident
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:13 pm
Location: PRESTON/AXARQUIA

Postby JAKE M » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:45 pm

I have to agree with costakid. doom and gloom -Why?
If those who own a house in spain (or the UK) and it is their principle home then the house is not worth a penny until you're dead. simple as that. the kids will then inherit the value of that property. since they did not invest in that property then whatever sum they receive is "greatfully received" The value of the property while you live in it is completely disregardable (is that a word?)
If like me , you live in the UK and own your own home, and also own a house in Spain, for holidays, letting etc, then surely it has been bought on the assumption that you can afford two homes.
At some point, I, like others on here will sell my Uk home and move to Spain. The market value at that point is what it will be. Our UK house will be paid off so that lump sum will provide income on the interest it generates. When we snuff it, the kids will inherit the value of the Spanish house. Nobody loses everybody wins. Only the property speculators lose out but only in the medium term as property investment is only meant to be seen as a long term venture for the very reason that most people are moaning about.
Property values fluctuate.
Cheer up and enjoy your life in Spain. We will in the not too distant future.
There is no such thing as gravity-Earth sucks

User avatar
Kmoppz
Resident
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:33 am
Location: Mijas Golf, and Crawley

Postby Kmoppz » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:54 pm

Well said Jake...


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 10 guests