A different catastro / nota simple amendment question

[Jool]

We are in the process of correcting our property details on the catastro as they are totally different to that on the nota simple and we have a house but no land there (what a nonsense). However the nota simple is not correct about the house but has the land listed correctly! Absolutely nothing matches, not even the address!

I know the catastro has to be corrected before the nota simple can be. Does anyone know the recognised route for amending the nota simple to be 100% accurate and show the same as the catastro (my aim!!). Do we need a proper drawing of the house showing the size of each room? The catastro only needs the overall m2 of the house......and we have the catastro amendment in hand - Beach / Sid?

[Campo Kenny]

You know what Jool?, what you are trying to do is correct and the right thing, no doubt about that, but I can't help feeling that being part of an active forum sometimes creates more worries than is neccessary over things like this.

We bimbled along brilliantly with our house purchases in Spain and had all the taxes boxed off with no problems and no nasty letters, everything was rosey and easy until I started listening and taking everything on board here.................whether right or wrong.
However since listening and hanging on to every word the knowlegable guys on here say (and I mean that sincerely by the way) we find that there is loads that is possibly not quite right or maybe not

We/Us must be .00000000001% of house owners in Spain who frequent a forum. The rest of the guys get on with it without worry or hassles.

Speak to any "non forum visitors" over there and they've never even heard of the Veras and houses being pulled down. 99% of them think the Catastro is that fecking big pan they cook the Paella in at ferrias

Seriously, we've decided to revert to the way we were or otherwise our holidays would be spent in offices all over Andalucia grovelling to sort out something we don't even know is wrong..............Only my thoughts.

Cheers,
Kenny

[Wicksey]

Kenny, I can see what you mean, but if Jool ever wants to sell her house it's best to get all the paperwork sorted out whilst she can. You never know what may happen and if you need to sell and there's problems then it can all be a complete pain. I've known a few people who thought everything was OK and only found out when they eventually got a buyer that things weren't as they thought and it caused huge delays, and in one case lost them their purchaser. It took us 7 years in all to get the paperwork finalised for our house and I would have hated to been made to wait a further 7 years from the time we wanted to sell to get it all done. Ignorance isn't always bliss

[Jool]

Thanks Wicksey, I appreciate your comments and care. I´m not worried at all, its more practical than that.

Several houses near us or within 30 minutes are being, or have been, demolished for rail or road routes and they only get the catastral value in compensation. Hence it made sense to me to get the catastro up to date, especially as we have land near the coast that does not appear on the catastro at all, not even the bit our house in built on! We are floating on air apparently.......... We don´t mind if this means we need to pay higher IBI each year (its a joke at present).

Also with the decree 218 demand on Agents if we do need to sell I don´t want any down pricing just because of paper work inconsistencies....

[Jool]

Sorry I got muddled between the two of you, I meant thank you to both you andto you campo kenny for not wanting to be a stressball and caring!!

[Campo Kenny]

Jool, you have pride like myself and naturally want things right and above board.
The thing that gets to me in Spain is actually trying to comply or to pay bills etc....it's like drawing teeth and sometimes you get the feeling they are doing you the favour allowing you to settle up, or correcting catastro problems etc.
The thing for arguments sake about the Boletin which we were talking about a week or two back.
Yep, my name appears so I decided to find out what the score was and sort the problem.

I calls the gestor and she says she can't find what I'm on about, she calls the townhall mentioned by my name........they say the same.
How do I sort that then? Whatever it is, Do they want me to guess??......Jeez I wouldn't have even known about it apart from this site and OH did consider banning me from future visits

Turning the tables if a foreigner here owed me money I'd pin the invoice to his butt , but what do they do?...........they stick your name on some obscure website that only 3 people a year visit (plus us worriers on A.Com ).............every man and his dog has my UK address, why not send it there or at least a letter informing me of my crime.

Again Jool all the best with it and it is obviously better that you sort it rather than leaving it.

Cheers,
Kenny

[Wicksey]

I must have missed the Boletin conversation on here Kenny, so I am remaining relatively chilled now that I don't own a property. If I owe any money then they can come and find me

[Beachcomber]

Jool, the nota simple is an extract from the property registry which is a record of what is contained in each escritura. The only way this can be altered is by way of an 'escritura de rectification' or 'aclaración'.

If this is not possible for any reason you may need to employ the services of an architect to draw up a certificate of antiquity or see if your local town hall will issue one and use it to draw up a new escritura reflecting the true situation of the house.

A head in the sand attitude to life in Spain is all very well and may well have worked in the past but it could result in it ending in tears especially the way things are currently developing in this country.

[Campo Kenny]

Agreed Beachy, but it's no so much a "head in the sand" thing, it's more of an "exhasperated sod it" until the rules and regulations become understandable to a person with an IQ of less than 1 million and also consistant .

Kenny

[Jool]

THanks Beachy,

The house is about 45% under-sized on the paperwork even though it has not changed since first being registered, it was one of those where the owner under declared size of house to save money I think......the land m2 is correct on the escritura and the house also exists as a legal house, its just the size of the house that is wrong and to me there´s a big difference in that.

The bank valuation for our mortgage noted the correct size of the house on their paperwork but the built size is under sized on catastro and escritura......although the escritura does describe the correct number of rooms and their names, no measurements though other than the overall one. I thought I could get a rectification once the catastro was updated and amended based on a previous/original catastro error?

[Beachcomber]

Individual room sizes are not normally quoted, just the built area and the usable area. You may be able to do it without but I think you will probably need a certificate of antiquity in order to amend the escritura.

[El Cid]

What would be the situation if the house area had been underdeclared because the actual size exceeded the permissable size for that particular plot?

Sid

[julian]

"What would be the situation if the house area had been underdeclared because the actual size exceeded the permissable size for that particular plot? "..............I think the penalty for that would be a stoning in the village square

[Jool]

That has happened around here and the owner has been fined over 30000 euros, ordered to demolish the over-sized part, and has a further 30000 euros fine hanging over them that they are trying to negotiate about.....plus the potential for more fines to come. Some of the fine in this case was doing the work and other renovations without a licence too.

Fortunately we are well under the limit and checked that before buying.......

[JAKE M]

it's more of an "exhasperated sod it" until the rules and regulations become understandable to a person with an IQ of less than 1 million and also consistant .

Kenny

I agree entirely Kenny. For our standing orders (agua, basura etc) to the ayuntamiento, the address next door to us is quoted on the paper work. This is met with a shrug of the shoulders. All other deductions (ibi,sevillana.telfonica etc) quote our address. We get our 1st certificate of occupation any time now which will mean a higher rates bill. So I will have to use the gestor to sort out the address thingy. To add to the confusion, the house previously mentioned next door to us (empty for years) is now up for sale. All part of spanish lifes rich tapestry

[El Cid]

That has happened around here and the owner has been fined over 30000 euros, ordered to demolish the over-sized part, and has a further 30000 euros fine hanging over them that they are trying to negotiate about.....plus the potential for more fines to come. Some of the fine in this case was doing the work and other renovations without a licence too.

Fortunately we are well under the limit and checked that before buying.......

Yes, I can understand fines of that magnitude if there was no building licence.

The situation I was referring to is where a house has been built with a building licence and has all the correct paperwork including a Licence of First Occupation, registered and on the Catastral but built larger than the licence allowed.

I know of a few houses locally in this situation and I was interested to know what happens under these circumstances. A friend was in this situation but the house sold OK because the new owner was happy to accept the situation. If a mortgage had been involved that may have been a different story.

Sid

[ICCSL]

The number on the door of your house may bear no relation to the number that appears in your escritura or the Catastral. For example; on my escritura it states that I own number 6, on my door the number is 4. In the catastral the number is also 4.

However the original number on the door was 6 when I first purchased the house until two years on when the council came round and changed almost all the numbers in the street. Circumstances in which they change numbers are if a house is knocked down in the street or a large house is converted into two, or if two smaller houses are converted into one !!!!

If I sold my house, I would just take the updated Catastral records to the notary at the time of signing the escritura and get the number altered on the escritura. As it is, I am pretty unlikely to sell so it does not bother me.

If I owned a house like Jool, and there were houses around me being demolished, I would take a very different view. I would want every i dotted and every t crossed, despite the hassle involved. If we were living as we were a few years back I would take the same view as Campo Kenny but the problem is in the current political climate no one can revert back to that type of complancency. I would guess that the Priors in Vera now wish that they had avidly read these forums because maybe if they had, they would have had a bit more time than 2 hours to move their things out of the house before the demolition happened or better, maybe the demolition wouldn't have happened. They put their complete trust in a lawyer who obviously couldn't have done his job properly.

I also note that lots of people accuse some of us of spreading doom and gloom. The truth is often something that people don't want to hear and we Brits do have a tendency to bury our heads in the sand or take the attitude of "I can't be bothered with the hassle". This week a Spanish owned house was demolished, they too are wishing that they had been bothered with the hassle.

Jool you need someone like Beachcomber or an architect.

[Colinm]

just on the house number thing..........
we completed for our house about 3 years ago. the plans showed it as number 27 in Phase 4 of the development. The nota simple and escritura all refer to casa 27 in Phase 4. Now, we have received a letter from the ayo, saying that we are now number 45 in calle xxxxxxx.
So, do I get the nota and escritura changed, as well as notifying electric, water etc.
or do I do sod all, and when i come to sell, just attach the ayo's letter to the documents?

sorry for hijacking the thread, but perhaps it has relevance to some other address changes.

[Beachcomber]

The property is legally identified by the property number 'finca registral' shown in the escritura and recorded in the property registry so you do not need to change anything in the escritura.

Actual addresses are purely cosmetic but if you receive mail at this address you will need to notify the utility services and bank etc otherwise you may not receive any mail.

[Colinm]

Thanks Beachcomber.
Actually we hope to start receiving mail! Until now the postman waited at the entrance to the urbanisation as there was no way of identifying which Phase was which.
Hopefully there will soon be road names installed and we will enjoy the reliable correos service I have read so much about