Cafe...

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HKM
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Cafe...

Postby HKM » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:38 pm

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me.... I am considering starting my own business in the Town where we live, I would like to open a cafe.. Aimed coffee and breakfasts in the morning then more aimed towards teenagers and young people in the afternoons/evenings.. Perhaps internet/playstations...Evening classes English and Spanish..Cardmaking.. etc.. There is nothing for youn people to do here on the evenings.. It is one of the biggest moans between parents.

But I do not know where to start, obviously look for premises but what then how do you go about opening licenses? Inspections if selling food etc..?

Any help/advice would be much appreciated..

Thanks..

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costakid
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Postby costakid » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:34 pm

what area????

HKM
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Postby HKM » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:37 pm

we are near Granada and would be aiming at a mainly Spanish customer base.

Thanks

campo babe
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Postby campo babe » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:30 pm

You would need to obain an opening licence from the town hall. This would cover things like wheelchair access, toilet facilities, fire regulations, etc. etc.

You will have to go to the town hall to find out just what they require. Sometimes these things take quite a time, depending on the area you are in.

Good luck. It sounds like a nice idea, but a lot of hard work.

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:35 pm

would you have a spanish co-signiture ?

an english person would have a very tough time getting any bar licence around here, the last 3 places i´ve worked at all had a spanish name on the licence...
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HKM
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Postby HKM » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 pm

I don't know...one of the places we have looked at is already liscensed I would rent......

I am going to get an appointment to see our new mayoress next week she is very young and has expressed the need for more for young people to do in the area so if I get her backing things may be different.

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mijasmagic
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Postby mijasmagic » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:00 am

Hi there.

My advice in situations like this is always the same. Go to a Spanish gestor, preferably on a personal recommendation. When we took over our (non food) business, which is also rented, we used a recommended gestor and the acquisition of our Certificado (to trade) was through within a week. His services have proved invaluable ever since.
If you´re taking over an existing food and drink premises and don´t intend to fundamentally change anything, you should be ok, but the gestor will properly advise you.

Good luck.

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Re: Cafe...

Postby pete_l » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:30 pm

HKM wrote: then more aimed towards teenagers and young people in the afternoons/evenings..
Although I know absolutely nothing about running a cafe/bar, it occurs to be that you'd want your highest-paying customers at the peak times, which would be evenings. While providing somewhere for the kids to go is very worthy, do they actually have the cash to spend to make you the profit you'll need to stay in business?

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Postby HKM » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:38 pm

Hi

Thanks for all of the replys, I intend on doing a lot more research before I decide anything..

But what I would be gratefull of is if anyone has any ideas they could throw at me at what other kind of activities/themes we could do incorperating it into the cafe...

Cheers

H

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Postby julian » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:58 pm

I think you might find that the town halls idea of finding things for the youth to do might not exactly be a bar opening in the village, they might be thinking more along the lines of sport, culture, concerts, clubs etc etc

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spanish_lad
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Re: Cafe...

Postby spanish_lad » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:47 am

pete_l wrote:
HKM wrote: then more aimed towards teenagers and young people in the afternoons/evenings..
Although I know absolutely nothing about running a cafe/bar, it occurs to be that you'd want your highest-paying customers at the peak times, which would be evenings. While providing somewhere for the kids to go is very worthy, do they actually have the cash to spend to make you the profit you'll need to stay in business?

i would ask myself if the other sucsessful spanish bars have "theme nights" in order to make enough to keep open?

how long have you been in spain ?
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HKM
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Postby HKM » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:58 am

Hi

We have been in Spain 4 years now, though had been spending a lot of time here in the 2 years before that also...

No, There are no other Spanish bar's with theme nights... That is why I think something different will do well, for example in June they put an outdoor comedian in the cine de verano, it was packed with people but mostly 15-30 year olds... The first time they had ever done anything like this to my knowledge.. The cine de verano has finished now, it was always well attended, I went to see Hancock last week, about 50 people there, 2.50 entrance fee each, but it is finished now until next June.. It is a 100k round trip to the proper cinema..

I appreciate all the questions and comments, they are all thought provoking.

H

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Babby
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Postby Babby » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:14 am

Does your town have its own Town Hall or do you depend from a larger town? Do you have a library or a building dedicated for multiple uses for your town? If you do you could organise activities within there.
I used to be indecisive but now I´m not so sure.

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anis
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Postby anis » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:20 pm

Hola HKM.
I was keeping quiet, hoping there must be another ex / current cafe bar owner on this forum who would pop their head over the parapet. I can't be the only one on here, guys ! :lol: :lol:
You specified help /advice, not opinion, so I will keep exactly to what you asked for.
First, the premises search. If this is of help, I'll try and give another installment of running etc., but see what you think first, incase I bore you.

1. Location - vital importance, but catch 22, the rent is higher, the more prominent your location. Not too many customers in the back streets.
2. Why is the rental available ? Try to find out from other sources.
3. Check the lease - is it renewable - this is important.
4. Ensure you know who is responsible for what and get it in writing. Replacing a broken coffee machine or even repairing it is horrendously expensive. Who owns what ? What happens if the freezer breaks - do you replace it or the landlord ?
5. If you wish to serve food - have the premises extractor fans in the kitchens - these are very expensive to install. You must have separate sinks, one for staff to wash hands in etc., and ideally SS units - you will be inspected for all these things.
6. Check the bathrooms - new builds must have disabled, some bars don't have loos big enough.
7. Check the smoking laws - the law for big bars is being enforced now, be careful on size or you will end up paying for al the renovation costs.
8. Can the electricsystem cope with any further demands ? If you add a further microwave, you might blow the whole lot. Also check the utility bills - ask to see them and make sure they are reasonable and not agged on to somewhere else.
9. Licence - a nightmare - be very careful, even with a recommended gestor, you can get in bother.
10. Neighbours - one call from them will have the local police at your door in minutes - ensure they are happy with your cafe bar to be open.
11. Check rent - it should only go up annually according to cost of living so make sure you get that covered and understood and a longer contract than one year.
12. Is there pavement space - there is a tax to pay for this use if you want chairs.
That's enough for now and I hope it helps and let me know if you want part 2.

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anis
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Postby anis » Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:24 pm

....sorry I forgot to add...
13. Emergency lighting and extinguishers.
The bar must have emergency lighting which stays on when main lights go off. Must be clearly signed, several extinguishers which must be kept up to dtae and signs above the extinguishers and the exits
There is much more but these are some of the important ones that will cost.

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mijasmagic
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Postby mijasmagic » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:44 pm

Also you need to consider:

Public liability insurance
Fire and theft insurance
Security system
Staffing (strict rules apply in Spain re. employment law)

As anis says, there are many more but hopefully these points will be of use. It is important to understand the "hidden" costs of a business as much as what your bar/cafe is going to consist of.

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Postby Jool » Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:53 pm

There are loads of hidden costs in any type of business in Spain and this is what people do not see when you are pricing up your services or goods. Over here there is a very successful dancing school for youngsters, only started about 2 years ago and they have managed by the loan or rental of premises.

Could you perhaps do a free trial of your ideas in a place you can borrow for a night and have epople holding little consultation forums in english and spanish to see what the locals think the demand is - you may get some very good contacts that way.........

Anything involving serving food or drink seems more fraught with problems than other ideas.........so could you maybe offer all the evening class type activities but using a local bar and then once you had the lower cost part of the business established, do an analysis of the true potential for the rest? I´m sure you could come to a deal with a local bar...........

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samantha
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Postby samantha » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:58 pm

If your town have a Casa de Cultura, you may be able to use their rooms for activities, language classes etc i have joined a group of English speakers who meet to practice spanish in our local Casa Cultura.
i myself tried to set up a regular group in a bar for language exchange / practice amongst the spanish and english and was told that the spanish youngsters would not come because they would not want to buy a drink, some older spanish people did come but the group only lasted about 8 weeks and fizzled out.
However, If your activities are successful they could be a springboard to gain custom at your bar, when you eventually open!
Good luck with the project and please keep us updated
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Retro P
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Postby Retro P » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:27 pm

Not forgetting of course the very important food handling licence.
Ah! the full english!!

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:02 pm

which all members of staff handling food should have, costs about 50€ each.
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