Hola Anis
I was very interested in your post as we are considering something similar. I would very much like to read Part 2 or any other parts you have for that matter.
Cheers
Jonnie
Cafe...
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anis
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- Location: la alqueria, alhaurin de la torre
Part 2 - running costs
1. Autonomo ( self employed ) - as the bar owner, one of you must pay this monthly, - € 400 ? You must keep up the payment, whether or not you have takings that month. It will cover the rest of your family.
2. Gestor fees for your accounts to go to the Hacienda for your tax
3. Taxes
4. Rubbish and water, electric and gas bottle bills
5. Licence application fees
6. Insurance for contents of the bar and public liability - I claimed twice and receivd zero.
7. Pavement fees - if you have outside space ( clients should come inside by 11.00pm - noise nuisance - but you can continue to serve inside to 2.00am )
8. Entertainment fees - if you have a TV or play music you should pay for a licence to do so.
9. Gambling - there is another licence for this, be very careful because you will invoke the wrath of the Nat. Police, not just the Local Police, if you don't follow the letter of the law.
10. Cigarette machines and gambling machines - you need to be licenced for these and need a zapper to open the cig machine.
11. FOOD HANDLING CERTIFICATE- mentioned above, easy enough and you can take it in English, your UK one will not suffice - the only trouble is trying to find some place to sit one - they have to wait for sufficient numbers.
12. Insect, roach control certs. - I don't think this is compulsory, but advisable if in a town.
13. Staff - members of own family over a certain age can work for you, after that, it gets much more complicated.
14. Replacement of equipment - don't rely on the suppliers to help you out with freezers, drinks cabinets, glasses, etc until you have been running for some time. If using old equipment ie. counter tapas cabinet, make sure the temperature is accurate or you'll make people ill, same with fridges, check them out first - it will save money in the long run. Old fridges burn a lot of extra leccy and they are your most important piece of equipment.
15. A last hidden cost- if you decide it's not for you, ensure you tell the hacienda / autonomo that you have ceased to trade or you could have bills fines following years later and they will add up.
Hope this is of help, Jonnie and HKM, and as before, I am just trying to give the facts as I saw them, not my opinion.
Perhaps some others here can help, they may not agree with some of it.
I will try to make a part 3 - " useful miscellaneous information" for you if the above is of any use.
1. Autonomo ( self employed ) - as the bar owner, one of you must pay this monthly, - € 400 ? You must keep up the payment, whether or not you have takings that month. It will cover the rest of your family.
2. Gestor fees for your accounts to go to the Hacienda for your tax
3. Taxes
4. Rubbish and water, electric and gas bottle bills
5. Licence application fees
6. Insurance for contents of the bar and public liability - I claimed twice and receivd zero.
7. Pavement fees - if you have outside space ( clients should come inside by 11.00pm - noise nuisance - but you can continue to serve inside to 2.00am )
8. Entertainment fees - if you have a TV or play music you should pay for a licence to do so.
9. Gambling - there is another licence for this, be very careful because you will invoke the wrath of the Nat. Police, not just the Local Police, if you don't follow the letter of the law.
10. Cigarette machines and gambling machines - you need to be licenced for these and need a zapper to open the cig machine.
11. FOOD HANDLING CERTIFICATE- mentioned above, easy enough and you can take it in English, your UK one will not suffice - the only trouble is trying to find some place to sit one - they have to wait for sufficient numbers.
12. Insect, roach control certs. - I don't think this is compulsory, but advisable if in a town.
13. Staff - members of own family over a certain age can work for you, after that, it gets much more complicated.
14. Replacement of equipment - don't rely on the suppliers to help you out with freezers, drinks cabinets, glasses, etc until you have been running for some time. If using old equipment ie. counter tapas cabinet, make sure the temperature is accurate or you'll make people ill, same with fridges, check them out first - it will save money in the long run. Old fridges burn a lot of extra leccy and they are your most important piece of equipment.
15. A last hidden cost- if you decide it's not for you, ensure you tell the hacienda / autonomo that you have ceased to trade or you could have bills fines following years later and they will add up.
Hope this is of help, Jonnie and HKM, and as before, I am just trying to give the facts as I saw them, not my opinion.
Perhaps some others here can help, they may not agree with some of it.
I will try to make a part 3 - " useful miscellaneous information" for you if the above is of any use.
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anis
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- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:17 am
- Location: la alqueria, alhaurin de la torre
Hi Jonnie,
Part 3 -
1. Staffing ratios - don't under estimate numbers needed. You will need to visit the loo, you will be ill at some time, you will get very tired, it's hard work. Some partimers don't like to work weekends. Be prepared to work all hours and fill in when staff are sick.
2. I cannot compare to UK because have no experience but on the good side, the pipe work is relatively easy. Your beer supplier will provide you with a techno man if things go wrong and they are pretty good at turning up quickly - it is in their interest to do so.
3. Most money is taken in evenings, Sundays are often quiet, particularly in Summer. Winters were busier than Summers, but that will wholly depend on your chosen location - could be quite different.
4. When you receive you tax stickers you can obtain a trading card for Makro or other wholesalers, wherever you wish to go.
5. Do menus etc in Spanish and English - sounds obvious, but you would be suprised. Cater for our hosts, some will come in and they will try other things but do learn the lingo if you want them to return and play some music for them too. Also, try stocking the wines they enjoy and remember, they like their reds chilled in Summer. Most have a great knowledge of wines.
6. Make sure you make good coffee and chocolate, very important - instant is not good enough especially if you want the Spanish to drink it and learn the different ways of serving it - solo/ con leche etc
7. Ensure you have plenty of funds to cover your start up. Suppliers will expect COD and will not supply in a very short space of time, if you cannot keep up.
8. Sticking with one supplier may give you more freebies, promos, one case for 4 offers - make sure you have plenty of storage space to keep offers in, but you will not have so many choices to offer.
9. A small local that won't fall foul of the smoking laws will not generate enough income for more than one family, so don't be fooled into thinking that you can go into partnership with others - it doesn't usually work.
As for my opinon ? I don't do it anymore - enough said
I hope this has been of some help to you.
Part 3 -
1. Staffing ratios - don't under estimate numbers needed. You will need to visit the loo, you will be ill at some time, you will get very tired, it's hard work. Some partimers don't like to work weekends. Be prepared to work all hours and fill in when staff are sick.
2. I cannot compare to UK because have no experience but on the good side, the pipe work is relatively easy. Your beer supplier will provide you with a techno man if things go wrong and they are pretty good at turning up quickly - it is in their interest to do so.
3. Most money is taken in evenings, Sundays are often quiet, particularly in Summer. Winters were busier than Summers, but that will wholly depend on your chosen location - could be quite different.
4. When you receive you tax stickers you can obtain a trading card for Makro or other wholesalers, wherever you wish to go.
5. Do menus etc in Spanish and English - sounds obvious, but you would be suprised. Cater for our hosts, some will come in and they will try other things but do learn the lingo if you want them to return and play some music for them too. Also, try stocking the wines they enjoy and remember, they like their reds chilled in Summer. Most have a great knowledge of wines.
6. Make sure you make good coffee and chocolate, very important - instant is not good enough especially if you want the Spanish to drink it and learn the different ways of serving it - solo/ con leche etc
7. Ensure you have plenty of funds to cover your start up. Suppliers will expect COD and will not supply in a very short space of time, if you cannot keep up.
8. Sticking with one supplier may give you more freebies, promos, one case for 4 offers - make sure you have plenty of storage space to keep offers in, but you will not have so many choices to offer.
9. A small local that won't fall foul of the smoking laws will not generate enough income for more than one family, so don't be fooled into thinking that you can go into partnership with others - it doesn't usually work.
As for my opinon ? I don't do it anymore - enough said
I hope this has been of some help to you.
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ICCSL
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: El Contador, Chirivel
Bars in Spain
I have had a bar in a small mountain village which has been open for 7 years now. The licence took 3.5 years to obtain. If the premises are already licensed this will be in the name of someone. If you have any problems with the bar that person will need to present. To get the license transferred into your own name might take less time but find a good gestor. A gestor cannot speed up the administration but he does know what paperwork is required.
If you intend the business to be a family run business you will need to get a family licence for the bar because if you don't each individual who works in it will have to pay 264 euros per month minimum for social security. Presumably you speak Spanish.
If you want to PM me with a list of questions I will answer them based on my experience of my own bar but each Town Hall (not just province) can place its own interpretation on the law so before you do anything I would visit a gestor
If you intend the business to be a family run business you will need to get a family licence for the bar because if you don't each individual who works in it will have to pay 264 euros per month minimum for social security. Presumably you speak Spanish.
If you want to PM me with a list of questions I will answer them based on my experience of my own bar but each Town Hall (not just province) can place its own interpretation on the law so before you do anything I would visit a gestor
Tina
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anis
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- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:17 am
- Location: la alqueria, alhaurin de la torre
Thankyou, Tina, for your input, I was feeling lonely out here.
Your experience explains exactly why I didn't reply in a totally negative manner, but stick to the facts as best I know them, because they asked for information.
I know quite a few people who have run successful bars for some time, but they do tend to be outweighed by those that close early. Unfortunately, many folks from the UK breeze over and think it will be a doddle to set up a bar on the beach in the sun and have no experience and little cash to back them up. There are also unfortunate cases where people are ripped off by the owners or suffer undue interference from the town hall. Some don't do enough research beforehand, but it doesn't mean it is not achievable.
I am sure that the laws and licences I have highlighted here exist for the UK as well and nobody in the UK would surely contemplate setting up a bar there, with such a cavalier/ lack of reverence to the law attitude, as some do here and then wonder why they get in bother. There are always two sides to the story.
Your experience explains exactly why I didn't reply in a totally negative manner, but stick to the facts as best I know them, because they asked for information.
I know quite a few people who have run successful bars for some time, but they do tend to be outweighed by those that close early. Unfortunately, many folks from the UK breeze over and think it will be a doddle to set up a bar on the beach in the sun and have no experience and little cash to back them up. There are also unfortunate cases where people are ripped off by the owners or suffer undue interference from the town hall. Some don't do enough research beforehand, but it doesn't mean it is not achievable.
I am sure that the laws and licences I have highlighted here exist for the UK as well and nobody in the UK would surely contemplate setting up a bar there, with such a cavalier/ lack of reverence to the law attitude, as some do here and then wonder why they get in bother. There are always two sides to the story.
anis et al...don't forget the vehemently anti-Brit attitude of SOME Town Halls.....they don't play by the rules and EU can dictate and regulate till the proverbial cows come home, but it is up to the individual authorities to comply.... a totally different bottle of crisps in some areas!!! ( )
And also, don't ALL employees have to have work contracts now...even the part-timers??
PS. I'm an ex-bar owner too!
)And also, don't ALL employees have to have work contracts now...even the part-timers??
PS. I'm an ex-bar owner too!
Life is as good as you make it, just keep my glass half full
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ICCSL
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 238
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: El Contador, Chirivel
Bars in Spain
They do all have to have contracts unless it is a family run business. There are special licenses and rules for this. All of them have to have a health and hygiene certificate too, whether family run or not.
One thing you have to remember about any business in Spain is not to direct it totally toward the Brits. They are fickle and they don't, contrary to public belief, spend more money than the Spaniards on a drinking night out. When the Spaniards come out to party they do it big style.
In terms of internet facilities, we put two computers in our bar around three years ago because I was fed up with every Brit in the area coming into my office and asking if they could use my office computers to check their email. The cost of using the computers in the bar is 2 euros per hour. Also they can dowload their photos from cameras on them, print on them, copy discs etc. The only people using those computers currently are Spaniards and they spend hours on them. It has however, stopped all and sundry coming to my office to use my computers free - bonus !!!!
Tina
One thing you have to remember about any business in Spain is not to direct it totally toward the Brits. They are fickle and they don't, contrary to public belief, spend more money than the Spaniards on a drinking night out. When the Spaniards come out to party they do it big style.
In terms of internet facilities, we put two computers in our bar around three years ago because I was fed up with every Brit in the area coming into my office and asking if they could use my office computers to check their email. The cost of using the computers in the bar is 2 euros per hour. Also they can dowload their photos from cameras on them, print on them, copy discs etc. The only people using those computers currently are Spaniards and they spend hours on them. It has however, stopped all and sundry coming to my office to use my computers free - bonus !!!!
Tina
Tina
Re: Cafe...
Did you ever manage to set up your cafe? I'd be interested to know if it worked out? And what you ended up doing ultimately..... 
99% practice - 1% theory
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