Junta to Act on Demolition of Illegal Homes Policy

[country boy]

I point to this article and pose the question; does this sound like progress or just more mumbo jumbo?

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/pu ... 8807.shtml

[campo babe]

And how long will it take for these 25 Inspectors (36 next year) to find all the illegal properties and document them?

[katy]

Probably one of the main criteria will be if the properties are owned by a foreigner!

[Jool]

In our area the JDA have told the town halls to present them with a plan of all the properties in the area, legal and illegal, but with emphasis on illegal.........one town hall has asked their residents to complete a form telling them about their house.........could you make it up?

[wagon ropes]

Probably one of the main criteria will be if the properties are owned by a foreigner!

I read the article and foreigners were not mentioned. I really think it is a myth that they target us. Firstly because, percentage wise, if they were only targetting foreigners they would only be looking at a very small number and secondly that we only hear about Brits etc. in our papers. There are plenty of examples of the Spanish suffering just as much if you look at Spanish news!

I just hope that this is not another example of wind and water that does little more than cause a lot of people a lot of worry. Why don't they just legalize what already exists and then make a real effort to stop illegal building in the future. That would surely do much more to help Spain in the future.

[Jool]

Some houses cannot be legalised as they are in dangerous positions, eg too close to ramblas etc, our local paper reported that the JDA had stated they aniticipate at the end of the day around 5% of illegal or irregular homes will be demolished and the others will be "regularised" but this may involve owners paying out for infra-structure etc..........personally I think there should be a grant from the EU to all regional authorities in Spain and this could be put on each property as a charge so that when the house was sold or the owners died the charge was then repaid.....(similar to the old Legal Aid charge system for divorcees living in old marital home, where legal fees did not have to be repaid until youngest child reached 18). Its not flawless but would at least stop current owners losing more money etc and would mean that the govt found a way of getting all services and infra-structure connected to the properties that could be made legal.......

[Beachcomber]

I remember seeing a figure of an estimated 48.000 illegal properties but I can't remember if this was just in Málaga or across the whole of Andalucía. Anyway, whichever, even if each of the 36 inspectors investigated and reported on one property every single working day (not allowing for siestas, fiestas, sickies, compassionate leave, annual leave, etc) the task would take over five years to complete.

[Wicksey]

What baffles me is the fact that houses continue to be built in the campo around us and not just 24m2 casitas. I can see several large villas being built in the Competa/Sayalonga hills at the moment and in the last few weeks a plot has been cut down the hill from us and a house of at least 100m2 has very rapidly appeared. We have twice seen the police there, and with binoculars have seen them writing out notes and going all over the site, but the builders just carry on working. Surely it would be a help if they could stop any more from being built and adding to the problem, while they are trying to sort out the thousands that already exist!

[Jool]

I understand this is why the JDA have asked town halls, such as those in the famous Almanzora Valley, to report on all the properties as it saves the inspectors the time in identifying them....but it will take years - still its a way of getting rid of all the surplus new housing stock isn´t it whilst you have captive shoppers........

Wicksey - same happens over here but from the visit to paralization notice can take a couple of weeks and that gives people the time to submit an application, once a solicitud is accepted and can be shown to the police they turn a blind eye to continued building works.......madness....why some MEP does not photograph or document this properly and then take the spanish government to task for STILL allowing such blatant and major infractions I don´t know....it seems to me all town halls are interested in is getting any money in, no matter how and of course you have to pay when you apply for a licence, not when you get it!!!

Did you know that once you go and work at any town hall, you have a job for life, pass the simple exams for government admin and then you are in post for ever more, that is why so many don´t bother and so many have such long breakfasts - the half a morning ones!! No incentive to rock the boat, its a personal gravy train..........

[campo babe]

I have been getting a lot of useful information from the AUAN website.

It appears that the Inspectors arrived last week in Cantoria. Here is an extract of the information they are asking for:

Cantoria Survey Questions (translated)
Location?: Poligono No,Parcela No: (The inspector should know this if you do not)
Builders Name and Address:?
Owners name and address?
Owners Post office Box Number?
Does the property have a building license? Yes or No If in doubt, refer the inspector to the town hall.
Is there a license of first occupation? Yes or No
Is there a 'Proyecto de actuacion' (a construction project on rural land (eg. for a farm house).) ? Yes or No If in doubt refer the inspector to the town hall.
Stage of construction?
What year was it completed?
Is it inhabited?
If yes, is it a first home or second home?
Legal situation, is it under administrative or criminal proceedings? Yes or No If in doubt, refer the inspector to the town hall. They will have this information.

They stress that the form should be completed by the town hall representative, and that questions could differ from town to town.

As Beachcomber says, it could take a long time for the process to get around to all the "illegal houses" in Andalucia.

Wicksey, I agree, why are they still allowing houses to be built? We were told several years ago, 2003 or 2004 maybe that nothing more would be allowed until "the plan", yet one local builder has built himself a very large house in the campo complete with swimming pool, and fenced land. It is so big, when we saw it being built we all thought it was going to be a Restaurant.

[Beachcomber]

I think the Almanzora Valley is something else. The last time I went there was over ten years ago but, even then, there were hundreds of properties that anyone could see, just by looking at them, could not have been legal.

Many people who bought these properties were quite well aware of this at the time but my sympathies are with the purchasers who thought they were following the correct procedure by using a lawyer and relying on his advice to do the right thing.

This is the profession most at fault in this whole fiasco. They charge a fortune for doing a crap job then deny all responsibility when when the proverbial hits the fan. A hex on them all!

[Wicksey]

Wicksey, I agree, why are they still allowing houses to be built? We were told several years ago, 2003 or 2004 maybe that nothing more would be allowed until "the plan", yet one local builder has built himself a very large house in the campo complete with swimming pool, and fenced land. It is so big, when we saw it being built we all thought it was going to be a Restaurant.

Sounds like one I know of ....... we thought it was going to be a hotel! The owner is a local retired policeman ..... say no more In our experience all the houses built around our old house were done after 2002 which was when I thought the new land laws came in force to try to restrict building. This is a subject that greatly annoys me and I could moan on for some time

I agree with Beach too. The lawyers have said everything is OK and people have ended up with all sorts of problems. I know loads of people whose escrituras were for 24m2 casitas del apero (and not the 3 bed villa and pool that existed) and many didn't find out until they were trying to sell. The local councils that issue 'illegal' permissions have a lot to answer for as well. In years gone by most people would never imagine that this would happen and so would be happy to accept that the house is completely legal as the town hall has granted 'permission'. It would seem very unfair for owners to be prosecuted for the wrong-doing of the local authorities.

[Jool]

But Local Authorities don´t entertain any wrong doing, haven´t you learned that yet in Spain? They always act for the best for their community and it is some higher anonymous authority that causes the problems .........even while mayors mysteriously benefit from it.........often spanish business people don´t like to say NO, instead they say yes but at a ridiculous price .....all designed to keep the peace but mean they don´t have to do the job and with a job for life policy why should bureaucrats catch up with the modern world and all its stresses.......,

[Lavanda]

Jool wrote:

"Did you know that once you go and work at any town hall, you have a job for life, pass the simple exams for government admin and then you are in post for ever more, that is why so many don´t bother and so many have such long breakfasts - the half a morning ones!! No incentive to rock the boat, its a personal gravy train.........."

Here we have only two permanently employed people in the Town Hall. The other four people are on yearly contracts under some publicly funded job opportunity scheme. At the end of the year none are 'taken on' but new people are employed to ensure the continuation of the grant. In this way the 'rates' remain low for the inhabitants of the village (84€ per year) but, of course, the grant comes from central government and from someone's taxes. This means NO job for life BUT it still means people are not motivated to do a good job as there's no 'job for life' at the end of it. We can't win.

[Jool]

Too true!! I have to say though that our town hall staff do work very hard and they do achieve quite a lot, but we have a very active mayor. Its a tough one this as we, like many no doubt, moved here for the laid back approach to life and yet now want it a bit more efficient....I guess the two go together.......but more care for the inhabitants, in terms of ensuring legality etc, and a better funded town hall system would not go amiss.......