Autonomo

[Laslomas]

Does anyone know whether a person wanting to work in Spain after retirement age must pay contributions into the Social Services system?
I am thinking mainly of the Autonomo. This is currently approximately €255 per month and covers Health and Pension entitlemet - both of which a pensioner already has. So would a person still need to register to take on work?
In the Uk a person over 65 (or 60 for women) does not pay Class 2 NI contributions (self employment)- is the system similar here, except of course that retirement for women is 65? Or do payments still have to be made?

[Jool]

Autonomo now is 264 and a few cents per month!

As for the rest I think you would need to ask a gestor......sorry I don´t know

[spanish_lad]

€264

[Bongtrees]

Does anyone know whether a person wanting to work in Spain after retirement age must pay contributions into the Social Services system?
urse that retirement for women is 65? Or do payments still have to be made?

The place to look is on the social security web site www.seg-social.es however is only in Spanish but the relevant info is here so if you are male or female over the age of 65 or have paid in for 35 years you do not pay.

Los trabajadores autónomos que tengan 65 o más años de edad y 35 o más años de cotización efectiva, estarán exonerados de cotizar a la Seguridad Social, salvo por incapacidad temporal y en su caso por contingencias profesionales.

[McT]

.......so if you are male or female over the age of 65 or have paid in for 35 years you do not pay.

Los trabajadores autónomos que tengan 65 o más años de edad y 35 o más años de cotización efectiva, estarán exonerados de cotizar a la Seguridad Social, salvo por incapacidad temporal y en su caso por contingencias profesionales.

I think it says that one has to be over 65 and (not or) have paid in for 35 years or more.

McT

[spanish_lad]

yup, it says and.

[Laslomas]

I have just had my bank statement for January - and as Jool says the autonomo payment is now 264,71. I cannot believe it has gone up again. Assuming you don't work on Sundays that is 10 euros a day for the 'privilege' of working. After other overheads, I don't even earn enough to cover that some days.
Does anyone know if there is any kind of relief, or reduced payment scheme for autonomo? I am not surprised that there are so many illegal workers, and due to the lack of overheads they are able to undercut the legal ones!
Also, what are the penalties for working without paying this? Do they ever catch up with anyone?

[Beachcomber]

There is no relief from paying autónomos. I'm sure the Spanish government does not like people working as self employed in the same way that they would prefer to have everyone living in little rabbit hutches on the edges of cities and towns where they can keep an eye on them rather that spread throughout the countryside which they also do their best to discourage.

[Jool]

The spanish government just shaft you every way you turn, it is anti-entrepreneurial, anti-business unless you are related to anyone in government or local Authorities, then doors magically open............they take no responsibility for anything and you are required to do extra work to cover their inefficiency...you can complain but that dept simply covers up and brushes under the carpet.....I have lost faith in Spain now.

[Bongtrees]

I doubt many ex-pats with half a brain and who have done their homework actually come to Spain with the idea of working or starting a business as is clearly a non-starter for most activities.

I have always assumed that most come to retire or buy holiday homes so the question of paying autonomos would not apply to them, the rest of course work on the black.

As for the majority of the indigenous population, they have been brain washed for so long that they seem to positively enjoy living like rats in flats and consider people who live outside all year round to be loco. Give them a few fiestas and free concerts and they are anybodys

[Jool]

Bongtrees, I¨m afraid you are way out of touch with life in Andalucia, being in Valencia. A huge proportion of expats who moved here in the last 7 years were well under retirement age and moved to set up businesses or because they wanted a better, and safer, quality of life for their children. A lot of enterprising individuals came over (not just the dreamer-hopers to open bars) and many are still here, struggling. It is disgraceful that working legally is SO difficult and you are always up against those working on the black, and they often live a better life style as don´t have any of the expenses to pay and get away with it.

[masterob]

A huge proportion of expats who moved here in the last 7 years were well under retirement age and moved to set up businesses or because they wanted a better, and safer, quality of life for their children.

Jool, just curious to read this. Is it based on evidence published somewhere or just your supposition? Like Bongtrees, I have always thought the majority of Brits living in this part of Spain, to be retired or very wealthy!

[Jool]

No its evidence, pàrticularly province of Almeria. Not many of them are left now but Arboleas, around Mojacar, Sorbas all areas within about 40 minutes of Mojacar were full of loads of young families re-locating and friends in real estate reported majority of clients were under 50 or those in 20´s with young children......and I used to see them everywhere but this year it seems pretty much deserted by comparison.......a few businesses are left.....but not many, even good businesses with good names have gone down the pan.

[Bongtrees]

In the 8 years I have lived in Spain, the most difficult questions to get answers to both on forums and on the street are those questions relating to employment, especially self employment. This is irrespective of area as I have looked on different forums and have friends in different locations and have asked.

Therefore it is not difficult to draw the conclusion that there are very few self employed ex-pats in Spain and probably even less directly and legally employed.

I live in Valencia where the population including satellite towns is approx 1.75 million and finding a job or a legally operating ex-pat autonomo is as rare as finding hens teeth. I base this on my own observations plus my many trips to Hacienda and seg social where I am told that a foreigner is a rarity there and never once in 8 years have I ever seen a foreigner there.

Given those stats I find it difficult to believe that the 2 areas Jool mentioned were FULL of autonomos especially given that the population of Mojacar district in 2005 was a mere 6,092 and Sorbas 2,840 and Arboleas 2,819

One wonders what on earth these dreamers thought they were going to do to earn a living.

I would imagine it would be almost impossible to scrape a living working on the black, let alone legally.

[Jool]

I don´t believe I mentioned that they were autonomos, but its no surprise that you question anything I say as its your habit based on prior prejudice, perhaps you are a closet misogynist, I don´t know. But there WERE a lot of british people here trying to make a better life for their families and well over half of them have now gone back. A check at the local Social Security office in Huercal Overa would reveal this and official government statistics also reflect this. Recent statistics from Spain showed well over half a million UK expats employed or autonomo in the province of Almeria alone.

[julian]

"well over half a million UK expats employed or autonomo in the province of Almeria alone...that´s amazing if it´s true..if you add that to the UK expats that do not work then there must be more brits in almeria than in many similar size parts of the UK !!!

[frog]

watch tv,move to spain,live your dream hahahahahahaha

[fincalospinos]

I cant see why people are so opposed to paying Autonomo, apart from the pension benefit that accrues, it also give the whole family access to one of the finest Health Services in Europe.

[Andy1]

I am autonomo but leaving Spain very shortly. Is there any easy way of cancelling the monthly payment/autonomo myself? I asked my Gestoria to do it for me and he wants nearly 300 € for the privilage! What happens if I just close my account and do nothing? I have also missed a few payments down to not having any work and no money, do they chase me for this?

[Jool]

The statistics were from the local newspaper (Costa Almeria News) in reference to the number of expats de-registering in a recent article.

Andy - do NOT just leave it. If you do the bill will accumulate and they will embargo anything they can in your name in Spain and add hefty penalties on. Its very simple to stop paying social security. Go to the local social security office - TGSS - and ask for the form to dar de baja seguridad social. Make sure you leave with a copy of the document once processed proving you have done it and never lose this.

You will need to do it asap as there are cut off points each month for you to be de-registered from the following month....

And yes you will probably need to pay the missed payments...........there will probably already be penalties added......it can take ages but they will chase you for this as you are required to pay every month you are registered on the system