Tildes and accents

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silver
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Tildes and accents

Postby silver » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:36 am

Frank..que sepa yo .. in all my time in Spain..never heard this expressed such...
que yo sepa ..as far as I know
que se yo..what do I know
Most forum users or foreigners do not need to write correct Spanish..in fact only about 20% of Spanish themselves do..learning this takes up too much time which could be spent on vocab.. and puts a lot off learning and makes learning the lingo a pain.
After more than 30 years here..speaking mainly Spanish to Spanish no one has ever complained with my own wee mistakes..
Shop staff here have never been trained to give..service with a smile..The lack of a smile is probable due to the fact that they wages are so low, hours so long and contract so short that staff do not care..unless there is another Incentive like
an attractive younger woman (Spanish natch) came and they not only took her empty out of the car, but took it to the rack, fetched her a full one and put it in for her
:)
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silver
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby silver » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:33 pm

P.S Tilde is the little line on top of a letter.
Acento is the sílaba tónica without which the word be pronounced differently .
Las palabras agudas son aquellas que tienen la sílaba tónica.
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frank
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby frank » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:05 am

Frank..que sepa yo .. in all my time in Spain..never heard this expressed such...
que yo sepa ..as far as I know
que se yo..what do I know
Agree, you're right. "que sepa yo, no" "as far as I know, no", is common especially in the States, but not used the way I have used it. "¿Qué sé yo?" would be better. I have a Spanish course, and some of the content is based in South/Latin America, and it isn't the first time I have picked up habits that are fine there but not in Spain. Keep it coming, I never tire of having my Spanish corrected.
Most forum users or foreigners do not need to write correct Spanish..in fact only about 20% of Spanish themselves do..learning this takes up too much time which could be spent on vocab.. and puts a lot off learning and makes learning the lingo a pain.
This, of course, is a personal choice. On any given subject/hobby etc,we will all have different ideas on how much we want to learn about it. Some will delve quite deep, others will merely scratch the surface. Having a huge long list of words and not being able to string them together is not a lot of use. I personally like to try and get my Spanish as correct as possible, not everyone will, but that's just my choice. I have shared courses with people that are fanatical about perfecting their Spanish, look in wordreference.com, there are thousands of people from all around the world looking to perfect their Spanish knowledge. So I'm not alone, but realise it's not for everyone. I would think your 20% figure of Spanish writing correct Spanish may be true of rural Andalucia, but certainly not true of many parts of Spain
After more than 30 years here..speaking mainly Spanish to Spanish no one has ever complained with my own wee mistakes..
Doesn't surprise me, I have found that unless you specifically ask them to correct you, they are normally too polite to do it. When we meet Spanish trying to speak English, we don't normally comment on their mistakes. We have good Spanish friends, and he never picks me up, even when I know I have just come out with something stupid, even despite me asking him to correct me. However, speaking with a Spanish friend on skype, the whole idea is to improve your chosen language, and he is always correcting me! :oops: But that's why I'm there.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby frank » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:28 am

silver wrote:P.S Tilde is the little line on top of a letter.
Acento is the sílaba tónica without which the word be pronounced differently .
Las palabras agudas son aquellas que tienen la sílaba tónica.
Tilde can be the little line above the N,(correctly know as Virgulilla) but it also refers to any accent, tilde is synonymous with acento. The ñ is not an "n" with a squiggly line over it, it is a letter in it´s own right, it has it´s own entry in the dictionary. (the same as ch and ll used to) There always seem to be moves to get rid of the ñ, but at the moment it´s still a letter in it´s own right.
The RAE is very clear, tilde is the oblique line that goes down from right to left, ie é.

m. Tilde, rayita oblicua que en la ortografía española vigente baja de derecha a izquierda de quien escribe o lee. Se usa para indicar en determinados casos la mayor fuerza espiratoria de la sílaba cuya vocal la lleva, p. ej., cámara, símbolo, útil, allá, salió; y también para distinguir una palabra o forma de otra escrita con iguales letras, p. ej., sólo, adverbio, frente a solo, adjetivo; o con ambos fines a la vez, p. ej., tomó frente a tomo; él, pronombre personal, frente a el, artículo.
Tilde es la marca que se le pone a una palabra por llevar acento en ésta, y que sigue una regla ortográfica. En este caso "ésta" lleva tilde diacrítica.


Apologies for boring the non pedants! :lol:
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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tjtops
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby tjtops » Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:39 am

Apologies for boring the non pedants!
I should think so too!!!...My dog had to wake me up....... :roll:
So is ANYONE going to return to the subject of this thread....???? Hmm????
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby frank » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:16 pm

tjtops wrote:
Apologies for boring the non pedants!
I should think so too!!!...My dog had to wake me up....... :roll:
Agree, it´s disgusting, discussing Spanish in an Andalucian forum! :D Should stick to how to best pick up UK TV, and other more relevant subjects like how to rehome dogs/horses et al :lol:
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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tjtops
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby tjtops » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:43 pm

Yawn.
Maybe discussing the intricacies of Spanish grammar could be done in a thread pertaining to that subject, tho, eh??!! :wink:

PS...but just to make the pedants feel at home....to be correct,
relevant subjects like how to rehome
should be 'relevant subjects such as the rehoming of.....' :wink:
Now let's all get back to the point, shall we :)
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby El Cid » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:56 pm

frank wrote: The ñ is not an "n" with a squiggly line over it, it is a letter in it´s own right, it has it´s own entry in the dictionary. (the same as ch and ll used to) There always seem to be moves to get rid of the ñ, but at the moment it´s still a letter in it´s own right.
Tut Tut, Frank. Maybe it's time to get back to English punctuation! :D :D :D

Still, 3 right out of four isn't too bad! :D :D

Sid

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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby K chameleon » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:18 pm

Check out www. say-it-in english.com
Hours of fun.
( a really grumpy waitress told me about it )

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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby frank » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:21 pm

Tut Tut, Frank. Maybe it's time to get back to English punctuation! :D :D :D

Still, 3 right out of four isn't too bad! :D :D

Sid
As I said, I'm from ever so 'umble stock, and I'm quite happy to be corrected, I won't spit the dummy out, like some here! :D I'm only a pedant where Spanish is concerned, and manage to get that wrong a lot as well.
Did you agree with the content of the post? Like to share your thoughts on the tilde/acento subject.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby El Cid » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:39 pm

frank wrote: Did you agree with the content of the post? Like to share your thoughts on the tilde/acento subject.
Looks OK to me.

Wikipedia -

The tilded "n" ("ñ", "Ñ") developed from the digraph "nn" in Castilian. It is usually regarded as a separate letter called eñe (IPA ['eɲe]), rather than a letter-diacritic combination. In addition, the word tilde can refer to any diacritic in this language; for example, the acute accent in José is also called a tilde in Castilian.

Sid

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karandjon
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby karandjon » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:08 pm

El Cid wrote:
frank wrote: The ñ is not an "n" with a squiggly line over it, it is a letter in it´s own right, it has it´s own entry in the dictionary. (the same as ch and ll used to) There always seem to be moves to get rid of the ñ, but at the moment it´s still a letter in it´s own right.
Tut Tut, Frank. Maybe it's time to get back to English punctuation! :D :D :D

Still, 3 right out of four isn't too bad! :D :D

Sid
Sid . did you not mean Frank got 1 right out of 4? You´re giving him credit where it is not due!! :lol:
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby antonia » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:18 pm

Good spot Karen :lol: :lol:

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silver
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby silver » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:34 am

I would think your 20% figure of Spanish writing correct Spanish may be true of rural Andalucia, but certainly not true of many parts of Spain
Not really, more like a national figure..believe me big towns throughout Spain are full of "rural" folk..while rural Andlaucia hides many great literary minds.
I have found that unless you specifically ask them to correct you, they are normally too polite to do it.
exactly...
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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby El Cid » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:44 am

karandjon wrote: Sid . did you not mean Frank got 1 right out of 4? You´re giving him credit where it is not due!! :lol:
Well spotted Karen. It was a cunning plan to see which of you knew the right way and the wrong way!

I'm surprised Frank didn't spot it.

Actually it just proves my English is better than my Maths :oops:

Sid

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Re: Rude shop staff part II

Postby tjtops » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Alt" followed by the appropriate number from the numeric keyboard to the right of your main keys, and what that gives. So, for example Alt 0128 = €; Alt 164 = ñ; Alt 165 = Ñ; Alt 168 = ¿; Alt 173 = ¡
Aha...not on a laptop it doesn't!!! :x
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Re: Tildes and accents

Postby blondie » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:08 am

Going back to the original post, when I was living in Galicia they used to say "Yo que' se'?" more than Que' se' yo.

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silver
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Re: Tildes and accents

Postby silver » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:44 pm

blondie ... yo que se... is like saying in English .. I havent a clue.. while.. que se yo.. is like saying.. what do I know.
just for fun
In a few cases when writing Spanish the tilde can be important as in...
inglès ..leaving out the tilde...ingles = groins :D
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