need to get this one of my chest!!!

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metalmonkey
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need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby metalmonkey » Wed May 20, 2009 3:13 pm

Hi

so Iam am typing this mad as hell not that it will do me any good so here goes. We have spent the last 3 yrs going through the paperwork and eventually building a full legal Casa Rural. We reckon the paper work has actually cost between 50-60k euros. We had our official opening April 1st and have given all our papers in t tourismo for our tourist licence. A few weeks ago Guardia Civil came round at 9am Sunday morning and asked to see all our paperwork...fine we said and gave them all we had. At that time we had family staying who we introduced them to , they said they were ok with the paperwork we gave them and then said they would contqtc Cordoba and we again said fine as we had our first inscription and had handed all documents in for our difinative inscription. Yesterday we were give a denuncia for operating a 'clandestine' tourist business and a restaurant!! HELLLOOOOO we had an official opening with about 70 people there spanish and english..

We were also told that we face between a 1 and 2K euro fine and have 15 days to sort it out. We have found out today that they have been through our web site to get information and that we are not even supposed to have a website up until we have the fifinative inscription.......wouldn't it be great if someone told you what the rules were, we thought we had been so careful but apparently not. They are also going through other web sites where people advertise holiday lets as the Guardia Civil said to me 'there are 45 illegal houses in this village alone which we will be visiting' So now we are spending more money to sort this out and to rub salt in it other places which have web sites and they know about them are not being 'chased'. Our local town hall has been great and has said that the Junta want to promote tourism but they have a strange way of going about it...so there.... said it...feel better and if anyone else says to me 'we're thinking of doing a bit of B&B on the side ..wink wink...to get a bit more money in they may actually get a bucket of water over them!!!

now feeling a bit better


:x
If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room

julian
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby julian » Wed May 20, 2009 3:31 pm

whilst I can understand your annoyance ,applying for a permission is not the same as having the permission granted.
answer within the time limit explaining everything, maybe you´ll avoid the fine at least.good luck, hope it works out ok eventually

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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby Bongtrees » Wed May 20, 2009 3:45 pm

MM sorry to hear of your experience and that you have paid so much for people to sort out the required paperwork and advise you.

Its a cautionary tale and I sincerely hope you manage to get it sorted out and avoid a hefty fine.
I am sure you will get it dorted out and good luck with the venture.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

katy
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby katy » Wed May 20, 2009 3:50 pm

Just what is it with the spanish authorities right now :evil: The spanish do this all the time many have not even applied for licences (and they get tourist grants to do it)

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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby Devils Advocate » Wed May 20, 2009 3:51 pm

Yep, you've try and do it properly and this is how you get repaid, whilst the cash in hand tax free "Rural retreat" brigade get away with murder :evil: ............I've never been a whistle blower but hearing stories like this makes you want rid the place of the bums and leave the business for the proper guys........IMHO,
DA
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pietree
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby pietree » Wed May 20, 2009 8:54 pm

Welcome to the real Spain.

I dont think they want change, its either that or the English they dont want,

My advice would be give up and find a better country to do business with :evil:
Thats it for now

julian
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby julian » Wed May 20, 2009 9:24 pm

"we had our first inscription and had handed all documents in for our difinative inscription"...
not sure what you mean by inscription, but it does seem that you have applied for a permission that has not been approved yet...do other countries let you open business premises before permission is approved?or is it just Spain that doesn´t ??

Beachcomber
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby Beachcomber » Wed May 20, 2009 11:29 pm

The central and regional governments have suffered such a drastic reduction in income that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel to try to supplement their depleted coffers. The Sheriff of Nottingham springs to mind.

Foreigners are an easy target because, unless they are Norwegian, the government does not have to worry about losing their vote in national and regional elections.
Let's go Brandon!

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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby HKM » Thu May 21, 2009 7:46 am

I agree with Beachcomber.. Are the Guardia on bonus or something, every morning for the past 2 weeks they have been outside the school stopping people, yesterday they stopped my neighbour in our one way dead end street and fined him 150 euros and 3 points for not wearing his seatbelt! It is a small town and everywhere I go I see them.

They look like 2 schoolboys with very bad attitudes...

julian
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby julian » Thu May 21, 2009 7:50 am

what is the official fine/points for not wearing a seatbelt?

Beachcomber
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby Beachcomber » Thu May 21, 2009 9:44 am

A guardia friend who does not agree with this policy has told me that every shift now begins with a briefing in which they are instructed to pounce on and fine motorists for even the slightest transgression of the law, also that the emphasis is on the 'guiris' and foreign registered vehicles.
Let's go Brandon!

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metalmonkey
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby metalmonkey » Fri May 22, 2009 2:19 am

In Spain we were told that you apply for first inscription for a tourist licence, when you ar ready to open you get a visit, after handing in every bit of paperwork you own and then get a visit from toutism to check you are ok and then you get a difinative inscription ...running along side this you apply for an opening licence and you can open once all your documents ahve been accepted by the town hall (we have done this) when the Guardia initially visited us they said it was ok to have guests, even though it was family staying and that they would come and check again. The denuncia says that we are a hotel for 20 people (wrong we can take a max 8) and we have a self service restaurant(wrong again) It also appears that they are being choosy on who they denounce as they visited a few places on the same morning as us two of which have not even applied for the first inscription and they have'n t been denounced. Cordoba tourism office have told us that anyone renting out rooms or a house must have a tourism licence or face a heavy fine, this also applies to people doing a 'bit of bed and breakfast on the side'.

will let you know what happens
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julian
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby julian » Fri May 22, 2009 6:49 am

answer the letter within the time limit and include the proof that you are already paying SS and already have the alta in hacienda, that should show that you are not running the business in a clandestine manner.good luck!

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metalmonkey
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby metalmonkey » Sat May 23, 2009 9:13 am

Hi
went to Cordoba yesterday met with the tourism people...couldn't have been more helpful, one phone call and they sorted the denuncia said we would have to pay a small fine a few hundred much better than the 1012K predicted.

They are also helping to get our paperwork through quickly. I think because we are trying to do everything legally they are willing to support us...slept a lot easier last night but still 'miffed' that others visited were 'let off' by guardia still we're sorted now

thanks for help and info
If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room

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anis
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby anis » Sat May 23, 2009 10:00 am

Really glad to hear this latest news, MetalMonkey. The tourism people are pretty good to deal with, fairly sensible by comparison with some other sectors. They genuinely seem to want you to succeed in rural tourism, guiri or not - that has been our understanding so far.
The only trouble we found was the great length of time and red tape involved, the latter being indecipherable to us, which is why we enlisted legal assistance for translation.
When you get your VTAR licence numbers, make sure you copy them on to your website with the tourism logo. I carry two sets of licence numbers on our sites. They asked us to do this because it helps them when checking on the internet for illegal lets, but from our point of view and yours, it gives peace of mind because they will leave you alone when they see these.
Another point, if you are advertising on Homelidays for example, they will ask for your licence numbers - they are pretty fussy. They will display them on your advert for you. I don't know of any other site that does this - well, not in my small collection of rental sites anyway.
Some potential guests are frightened off from booking, fearing that the property does not exist - there have been scams like this in the past, but your licence numbers will give them confidence to book, so it really is in your interest to take this route in many ways.
I am so pleased it is working out for you and wish you every success in your venture. :D

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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby Devils Advocate » Sat May 23, 2009 10:12 am

Anis interesting post.

I know for a fact there are lots of people renting their places via home owners direct. I also know for a fact they are not pukka business's and receive cash for their lets.

I take it this firm don't check references as the people you refer to do, it should be compulsary IMHO.

DA
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anis
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Re: need to get this one of my chest!!!

Postby anis » Sat May 23, 2009 10:41 am

It is not compulsory, DA. If you have licence numbers you can volunteer to put them on your advert with Homelidays. It makes business sense to me to add the numbers if you have them, if only to assuage your guests' fears, as I pointed out above. They are a French company based in Paris and seem to have a reasonable reputation but have recently been "gobbled up" as I see it or " accquired " by a larger group.
However, since the takeover, they seem to be functioning as per normal, thank goodness, unlike some gobbled up companies which I won't mention here. Homelidays are expensive, very fussy but well run, properly organised and efficient. Prospective clients - holidaymakers - actually have to sign up with them, which is again unusual. Most of my guests come from this site and testimonials can be provided by both owner and guest.
This particular company does check your numbers and will not put them on if they do not exist. They use the same strategy for France as well as Spain except the names are different - casa rurales, vivienda rurales for Spain and I am afraid I cannot recall the equivalent French ones but the set up is the same.


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