Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby Bongtrees » Sat May 23, 2009 3:24 pm

HKM wrote:
To add another question, if one person has 2 jobs do they have to pay 2 lots of autonomos?

Yes :shock:
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sat May 23, 2009 3:39 pm

HKM,
Regarding 2 jobs ..2 payments of 'autonomo'...from my previous experience you wouldn't pay twice, but it would require adding another category of licence to your existing one.
As far as I can remember you can do as many jobs as you like as long as you declare it and apply for the appropriate code to be added.If you are self-employed you can 'wear' different hats...

That is my understanding on the matter unless it has been changed recently....

Regards,
Gordon..

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby Bongtrees » Sat May 23, 2009 3:58 pm

BENIDORM wrote: That is my understanding on the matter unless it has been changed recently...
BENIDORM wrote:
This has never been the case, if you look back (and I cant remember her name) you will read that someone on here writing that she had to pay 2 twice as one job was in a bar and the other as an estate agent.

I know someone who was a painter and decorator and wanted to supplement his income by supplying and fixing replacement windows, he too was told to pay twice.

I was also told of a legal self employed English general builder :shock: who was told to stop doing everything on his jobs and pay another autonomos for the plumbing element so he had to sub contract out to a plumber.

Myself I was self employed and paying automos and later also became director of an SL, I was also told to pay twice.
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby hillybilly » Sat May 23, 2009 4:25 pm

Zofia wrote:Thanks, does the fact that I'm living here automatically make me a tax resident? Or do I have to register somewhere (would it be the same as registering as self-employed to pay autonomo, in which I get a SS number?)? I will ask the gestor to do that for me again (I did it for a month last year, long story...).

Will my partner, as well as my kids, then be covered for healthcare here, even though we are not married, he is the main wage-earner, and he works in the UK only? If not, what would he have to do to get health care here?
You are deemed to be tax resident in Spain if you are here for more than 183 days in the tax year.
If your partner (not sure if you have to be married) is living and working in the UK and paying NI there then you, as his family, may be entitled to healthcare in Spain using an E109.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/hea ... health.asp

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sat May 23, 2009 4:33 pm

Bongtrees,
You may be right, but that was my understanding...
I also was 'self-employed' for a long time and then Administrator of an SL. Company and President of another company, and at least two of my staff were employed by me as self-employed and they had other jobs and I'm sure that they only paid one contribution.
I've never been 100% sure about procedures in Spain and have been told by qualified people that I had to pay this and that, and this is the correct way, only later to find later out that it was incorrect information that they had given me.That also goes for information given to me by different town halls, totally different instructions for the same thing...
As for myself..well at one point when I was self-employed I had 5 different shops, all selling different lines, I had to pay for different licences, but only ever paid one autonomo...I went on to operate 15 shops and a factory...what a nightmare.. I made more money when I had one shop...
And if anyone is thinking about going SL from self-employed..then my advice is.. forget it !..But that's just my opinion..
My advice is read what you can on forums , but take it with a 'pinch of salt' and then get at least 3 different opinions from 'officials'...before you do anything..
Or be totally reckless and do what you like until someone tells you that you are in the wrong.... :lol:

Regards,
Gordon...Reporting from the Rest Home for Demented and Disillusioned Shopkeepers.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby Zofia » Sat May 23, 2009 4:59 pm

If your partner (not sure if you have to be married) is living and working in the UK and paying NI there then you, as his family, may be entitled to healthcare in Spain using an E109
He is living here, working there! He stays with my mother but is address is here (although he uses my mother's address for some things). He spends more time here than there, but not sure how many days a year.

It's so confusing!
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby hillybilly » Sat May 23, 2009 5:09 pm

Then you are both tax resident in Spain by the sounds of it and should both be declaring and paying tax in Spain and not the UK.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby El Cid » Sat May 23, 2009 5:13 pm

It is confusing!

As Hillybilly said, you are tax resident in Spain in you spend more than 183 days in a year here. Also (regarding your OH) you are also UK tax resident if you spend more than 90 days in the UK.

This means that you can easily be tax resident in both countries and pay tax in both but the country where you spend most of your time has first call on your tax.

That means that you pay tax in Spain and deduct the tax paid in the UK. If you are not resident in the UK but have UK income, in some cases like pensions, the income can be paid free of tax in the UK but normally it will be taxed in the UK.

Don't worry about the fact that you are paid in Sterling - you just use the appropriate exchange rate at the time you receive the pay or just use the annual average figure supplied by the Spanish tax office. All UK pensioners are paid in Sterling and have to do the same conversion.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby HKM » Sat May 23, 2009 5:28 pm

It is confusing and also expensive! My husband is soon going to have register for another business but I really don't think we can afford the 2 lots a month.. I will have to speak to my solicitor on Monday and see what he say's..

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sat May 23, 2009 6:52 pm

HKM,
I would suggest that you try to merge the two business ventures, otherwise you will attract two sets of accounting fees etc...You really need to check which licences are applicable, there is a huge book full of numbers relating to different businesses..there may be one suitable for both your ventures, I don't know your circumstances so can't help any further than that...
Do remember that the more 'things' that your lawyer has to sort out, then the more he can charge you, I have found in the past that they can spin a lot of 'lines', to attract more fees...

I am not convinced that you need to pay two lots of Autonomo...but of course if a barmaid on here and a bloke down the pub says that's correct..then who am I to disagree.... : ? Good Luck !

Zofia,Sorry your original topic has been hi-jacked....
Like I suggested earlier, I would think that you would be better being fully legal in Spain, it will take a little while to resolve but you will at least you will know that you have health cover etc., and not then likely to come a 'cropper' with the authorities..

Regards,
Gordon.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby avellana » Sat May 23, 2009 8:42 pm

I pay one autonomo amount but have 2 economic activities with different codes.
I was told by my accountant that this was correct.
As always who should we believe?

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby spanish_lad » Sun May 24, 2009 3:22 am

BENIDORM wrote:Zofia,
I see no reason why you couldn't contribute to the system in Spain by paying Autonomo, and unless rules have changed recently you should receive medical cover for yourself and your dependants.
As you are carrying out your work in Spain I would also think that it is correct that you should be part of the Spanish system, paying your taxes etc in Spain,and where you receive your incoming remuneration from is I would think irrelevant, I would say that it is where you are domiciled that is most important.
If you are intending to stay permanently in Spain I would say that in my opinion it is better to arrange all of your affairs in Spain.
I don't know your personal circumstances so really you should seek the advice of a qualified person...if you can find one !
Hope this helps...

Regards,
Gordon.

so you are saying that if you live in spain, but earn online, you should still pay autonomo in spain, and any associated taxes? (to make it worse, the job is not contracted.. if that makes a difference?)
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sun May 24, 2009 8:03 am

Avellana,
I would say that your accountant has advised you correctly, you are declaring your activities , and as such should only have to pay one autonomo payment.
I would be surprised and dismayed if this was not the case.
My experience is mainly with retail business in Spain, but I have many friends in other businesses, and they agree with me.
As an example.. a plumber who is also an electrician should have two economic activities numbers for taxation etc, he would also I believe have to show proof that he is qualified to carry out both jobs.
If you have a shop and sell clothing, then decide to sell greetings cards as well, then you need to have two code numbers , as they are classed as different types of business.They do allow a small amount of 'other goods', before you need to change or apply for different licences
The best way, for a shop, that I found was to have a bazaar code which then allows you to sell a wide variety of goods.
I am not a qualified person , I'm only offering my advice on the basis of my personal experience and the experiences of friends and colleagues, I hope that my information is of help to someone...
Regards,
Gordon.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby julian » Sun May 24, 2009 8:21 am

that was also my experience Gordon, I used to have a shop with several declared fiscal "activities" but I only paid one autonomo...and it was all done through an accountant and gestor....maybe things have changed since those days, but it would seem very strange to have to pay several autonomos.

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sun May 24, 2009 8:24 am

Spanish Lad , 'so you are saying that if you live in spain, but earn online, you should still pay autonomo in spain, and any associated taxes? (to make it worse, the job is not contracted.. if that makes a difference[/quote]...

Yes, I would say that is the correct procedure, it is irrelevant where your remuneration is paid, it is where you are domiciled, as stated by others 183 days in a country...

For instance...if you sell on E-Bay as a trader, and you live in Spain, but your E-Bay account is in the UK, then to be correct you should pay your taxes and social security in Spain.Where applicable you would also be liable for vat payments.
It does sound a bit 'scary', but to be honest if your business is a thriving viable business / job, I do believe that it is of benefit to be correct and legal.
If you are doing a few car-boots or doing a bit of e-baying or party-planning, then I wouldn't bother, until you are warned officially that you are operating illegally...But that is your choice....
Regards,
Gordon

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby toyotadesigner » Sun May 24, 2009 9:06 am

It is relatively simple. If the 'center of your life' (meaning you are living for more than 183 days in this country) is located in one of the European countries, you have to register yourself in this country.

Physically you live and work in this country, so you have to pay your tax here. If you have a contract with a company in another European country, you still work in this country - physically. You can invoice your fees to the company plus IVA. If your client would be located outside of Europe, you wouldn't have to charge IVA.

As an autonomo you can work in any business area you want to - the amount of 264 Euros per month remains identical.

If you are not registered in Spain it is absolutely legal to have a private Spanish health insurance. Same applies if you are registered. I've been through this procedure 4 years ago with the help of a lawyer who charged more than the health insurance :mrgreen:

As an autonomo you can suspend your status for a season, a year, two years if you don't do any business or don't have an income due to the economic situation.

There is a basic health insurance included in the autonomo fees, but I would advise you to contract a private health insurance - it's simpler and you don't have to go through all the hassle of the 'old system' (medico cabeza who directs you to another doc who could be far away from your current location, paperwork, etc).

Though Spain has some sort of 'laid back' mentality, you'll be in deep trouble **if** an envious neighbor will inform the Guardia Civil or any other 'official' body. Then they will jump on you and in case you are not fluent in Spanish you need a bilingual, very expensive lawyer :?

Anyway, I'm 54 and pay some 80 Euros per month for my private health insurance including dental care. 5 years ago I've paid 620 Euros per month for health insurance, so it's pretty reasonable in Spain.

In addition the income tax in Spain is lower than in Germany, so for me it really made sense to completely switch.

I think it's up to you. If you feel comfortable with the current situation, just get a private health insurance. If you don't want to look over your shoulder all the time, you might consider to contact a lawyer.
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby HKM » Sun May 24, 2009 9:39 am

Hi

I will speak with my solicitor this week, luckily he is a friend.. So we never get charged for advice etc..

As for health insurance, it's all well and good having private but if like us you live in the sticks, (at least 50 mins to Granada hospitals) you have to have be able to use the local health centre..

HKM

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby Zofia » Sun May 24, 2009 10:39 am

Like you, HKM, I need to be able to use the LOCAL health centre, which isn't covered by private healthcare.

I will speak to the gestor again, and get back onto the system, as long as the healthcare extends to my partner as well as my children (which was actually my original question, which no one seems to have answered!).

I've been trying to sort this out for over a year now (most of the delay has been due to my company not sorting out a contract for so long, and keeping me in 'limbo'). I only went officially freelance in January, before then they were paying me on the payroll, taxed at source. ( I did start off with autonomo, last June, which I paid for one month (!) until the company changed their minds and put me back on payroll.)

I really don't think any 'nosy' neighbours are likely to 'shop' me either, I don't think any of them even know I work, as I do it from home, and am not running a business of any sort! They think I'm a housewife....

Ho hum, so much conflicting information!!
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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby HKM » Sun May 24, 2009 11:07 am

My Hubby works and pays into Spain, and me and my son are covered so I presume your husband and kids will be too...

HKM

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Re: Question about autonomo(yes, again...)

Postby BENIDORM » Sun May 24, 2009 12:44 pm

Zofia,
With regard to medical cover for your partner, as he is working in the UK he should be covered under his E111 and as such shouldn't be covered under your automono, if he moves permanently to Spain I believe that you should be able to add him to your automomo cover.

With regard to you being freelance, I would suggest that as you are self-employed you are a 'business' and would be able to claim for expenses ie electric, office space etc., one of my spanish neighbours works from home, doing similar work to you, without any problems.
I hope this helps ...

I believe that you live quite near me ..by the way....

Regards,
Gordon


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