Andalucia - what do you think?

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.

How do you rate Spain?

A leading 1st-world country with excellent infrastruture and government?
0
No votes
A country good to live in with few or no problems?
18
46%
A third-world nation with deep-rooted problems that it ignores?
21
54%
 
Total votes: 39

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peteroldracer
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Andalucia - what do you think?

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:46 pm

There seems to be a wide range of opinion about Spain in the 21st century - what do you think?
Last edited by peteroldracer on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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julian
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby julian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:57 pm

sadly I couldn´t think of a country that fitted the first option, maybe somewhere like Norway, but it´s so boring there IMHO !!

Paula
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Paula » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:17 pm

Out of those particular 3 options I've no choice than pick the 3rd. (Peter you have a spelling mistake in the 1st option, well a typo :wink:) The various big problems in Spain haven't affected me personally, but they can't be ignored.

Jool
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Jool » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:26 pm

I cannot vote for any of these 3 options, can´t we add

Largely modern country with great road structure but with significant third world characteristics that hinder its progress, growth and success and attracts corrupt investment?

That would get my vote

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Julie
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Julie » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:58 pm

I think the answer one gives is due to where one lives, Madrid is nothing like Almeria for instance.
So I imagine totally different opnions would be evident in that case !
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peteroldracer
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:07 pm

Jool wrote: great road structure
You must never venture off the autovias, jool! Round here, there are potholes deep enough for gophers to live in, missing road signs all over the place so one doesn't know if/what the limit is, non-functional street lights, faded pedestrian crossings....... :crazy:
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frank
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby frank » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:33 pm

Interestingly you think of the new autovías, the AVE etc, great communications, but watched a Spanish programme a few night ago, and it said in 2012 Spain will be the world leader in high speed trains, and that Spain spends twice as much as Germany on infrastructure, communications etc, and four times as much as UK. It then went to query whether it was too much, and whether it was being spent wisely. It says the AVE only connects the major town, and is mainly used by the middle and upper classes, ie. the wealthy benefit from it but the poor don't, and that the bulk of the money has been spent on the AVE with very little on the local services. It also said of the autovias, the toll roads, that everyone wants them, but nobody wants to pay to go on them. You can see crowded minor road and autovias almost empty and that they are not profitable. I know when we leave Málaga airport to head south, it's like wacky races heading up the hill from Málaga, then all of a sudden everyone turns off right and I'm left all alone on the peaje, it's deserted! ;-) These are not my thoughts, but a Spanish report.
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Beachcomber » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:49 pm

frank wrote:... Spain spends twice as much as Germany on infrastructure, communications etc, and four times as much as UK...
That's because at least half of the money goes into the pockets of the politicians and crooked contractors and developers.
Let's go Brandon!

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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby frank » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:03 pm

Well a quarter goes in their pockets. Just read, "Uno de cada 4 euros del gasto público se emplea en pagar a los funcionarios!"
Regards, Frank

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Mowser
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Mowser » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:06 pm

The choices are a bit simplistic are they not?
I mean to say ...
A leading 1st-world country with excellent infrastructure and government?
What country has both these?
A third-world nation with deep-rooted problems that it ignores?
Sheesh.
Dave

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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby katy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:15 pm

I'm with Beachy on this. Spain was better when it truly was a third-world country. It's corruption matches Zimbabwe. The infrastructure is not so good except for the main routes, getting around most towns is a nightmare. Spain has received money from the EU for some roads that were never constructed!

Jool
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Jool » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:58 pm

We are deprived area and have been for many years according to the EU.......so have good side roads over here as well, a few potholes yes but compared to UK....nothing! We even have roads that quite literally lead to nowhere just stop in mid country...........

Fading pedestrian crossings, an invention opportunity no fade and no wear road paint!!!!

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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby chrissiehope » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:14 pm

All the road signs round our way were replaced in the summer by larger versions, which I assume was in repsonse to some daft EU directive.

At one point both the old & the new ones were in place, which looked really funny - "there's a bend coming up" "I SAID THERE'S A BEND COMING UP" !!

What is really silly tho, is that there is now a dirty great STOP sign at the end of our track (with less than 6 houses on), yet at a major junction there's a piddling little one mostly obscured by he undergrowth :crazy:
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Campo Steve
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Campo Steve » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:52 pm

I go with Jool i.e. none of the options, rather would prefer:

"Largely modern country with great road structure but with significant third world characteristics that hinder its progress, growth and success and attracts corrupt investment" as suggested.

As for the roads, I think it is easy to forget what the roads are like in UK. In Spain I drive expecting potholes. In UK I don't expect them, but then find they are there anyway. You notice these things on a bike.
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frank
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby frank » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:40 pm

"We even have roads that quite literally lead to nowhere just stop in mid country..........."
I think we can expect to see that sort of thing curtailed in the future. Spain will have gone in a few years from largest recipient of EU funds to actually paying it's way soon. I suspect the road building programme will slow down a lot, expect to see nice new roads in Lithuania, Latvia etc! ;'-)
Regards, Frank

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markwilding
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby markwilding » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:05 am

Spain a third world country? No. People who believe it is have never lived in Madrid or Bilbao
Did you know that Spain are the world leaders in wind powered turbines. People here in the north aren't peasants. Many go to university, in fact more than any other part of europe. many more people speak languages than in Andalucia. A good level of English is spoken by many. They work long hours, there is a good infrastructure etc
A leading first world country ? It isn't that either because the people have developed slower than technology infrastruture etc. Old habits die hard They over complicate everything, too much Bureaucracy, too many levels of government, the regional governments have too much power and all pull in different directions. while the central government have to keep them onside to be able to mantain enough power to govern.
We should remember this is the first economic crisis in Spain as richer country and because of this their politicians just don't seem to know what they are doing.
Is it a good country to live? The answer to this will always depend on who you ask When I'm asked this by a Spanish person I always say "it's not better than England , It's not worse either , It's different" and I can't take good weather into account as it's similar to the south of England

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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby lenox » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:39 am

I love living in spain, and it is, of course, more of a mini continent than a country. It has everything from high snowy mountains to warm Mediterranean beaches. Dense forests to empty deserts. and so on.
I've lived in Madrid, a wonderful European city which will employ a foreigner as easily as a Spaniard.
However, the Andalucian region? Third world and proud of it!

Beachcomber
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:00 am

frank wrote:Well a quarter goes in their pockets. Just read, "Uno de cada 4 euros del gasto público se emplea en pagar a los funcionarios!"
Yes, but the other quarter of the half I mentioned goes into the pockets of the contractors. The roads are built with whatever is left.
Let's go Brandon!

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Mowser
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Mowser » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:37 am

I'm with markwilding on this. You can't lump Spain together as one place. A third world country? How about Barcelona or Madrid and indeed Bilbao as mark said. The high speed train and the excellent
Mediterranean motorway?

It's like comparing Florida or New York with the six finger banjo players from Deliverance. All countries have faults - of course they do - but to say Spain is a third world country is simply ludicrous.
Dave

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Campo Steve
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Re: Spain - what do you think?

Postby Campo Steve » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:11 am

I agree with Mark and Mowser. Andalucia gives the impression of being poorer than Madrid and Barcelona, both cities I certainly wouldn't class as third world. But the question was SPAIN, not parts of Spain.

Overall, transport is good. Buses are better than UK (in my opinion), trains run on time, there are some great motorways.

And what is the definition of a third world country? It's a term originally coined in the early 50's but has changed since the demise of the Soviet Union. Many different definitions can now be found.

On another thread Mowser posted a list of third world countries. Spain was not on it. I've looked at other places to see if Spain is listed anywhere as "third world". I found none. Indeed, the World Bank, IMF and the UN all rank Spain along with UK and USA.

Maybe some areas are poorer than other areas, but third world it isn't.
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