Buying and berthing a boat

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
beachbabe
Resident
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Buying and berthing a boat

Postby beachbabe » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:04 am

Hi

I am considering buying a second hand motor boat. Say 5 to 8 metres. I'm thinking an old Bayliner, Ducauto, Sea Ray etc. Probably mid 1990s.

It's got to be moored at Caleta de Velez, for access and convenience, and the only way I can see that you get a berth is to buy a boat that already has a berth. Otherwise the waiting list looks slightly longer than my life expectancy.

The local boat agent, Nautica Miguel Rivas seems to have a fewboats available and i'll take a look when i go there in October.

So, 3 questions...

1. As well as the cost of the boat does anyone know what the annual fees are for a mooring at Caleta? I know it varies with LOA but estimates would be fine.

2. Is there any bureacracy involved in boat/berth purchase? (paperwork, qualifications, annual inspections, registration etc.) I do hold a yachtmaster qualification (theory) in sailing and RYA Day Skipper.

3. How "hard" is it realistic to negotiate for this type of boat? Is the market strong or weak? I'm thinking of offering 20% below asking price? I know my mates in the UK took ages to sell their boats a year or two ago and had to bring the price way down.

Thanks for any help.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:31 am

beachbabe wrote: Is there any bureacracy involved in boat/berth purchase? (paperwork, qualifications, annual inspections, registration etc.) I do hold a yachtmaster qualification (theory) in sailing and RYA Day Skipper.


If you buy a Spanish registered boat then you will need to have Spanish qualifications to drive it.

A full UK Yachtmaster certificate or the ICC certificate may get some exemption from the Spanish exams needed to get a licence.

If you are a resident you cannot own a foreign registered boat, it will have to be re-registered as a Spanish flagged boat and this is very expensive and complicated.

Some useful info at http://costablanca.angloinfo.com/inform ... ailing.asp

Sid

User avatar
spanish_lad
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5523
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Alhaurin el Grande since 99

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby spanish_lad » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:07 pm

sounds worse than reregistering a car, almost on par with the hassle involved in doing a classic lol
Alhaurin el Grande since ´99, working at the airport since 2011.

User avatar
pietree
Resident
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:33 am

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby pietree » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:40 pm

and if your on a budget beware, a boat here can be a noose around your neck too
Thats it for now

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:10 pm

spanish_lad wrote:sounds worse than reregistering a car, almost on par with the hassle involved in doing a classic lol


Probably worse. Paying the tax is the easy (but expensive) bit. What you then have to do is bring it up to the safety and environmental standards that apply to new Spanish boats. Bearing in mind that the standards are way lower in the UK this can be a very expensive proposition.

Sid

User avatar
spanish_lad
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5523
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Alhaurin el Grande since 99

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby spanish_lad » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:32 pm

hmm, so can an old boat pass new emission laws?
Alhaurin el Grande since ´99, working at the airport since 2011.

Jool
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 4915
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 5:56 am
Location: Coastal Almeria

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby Jool » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:39 pm

OH has a UK registered boat he wants to sell.......does anyone know of a service to tow it back to the UK so we can sell it there? Its a water ski-ing boat, inboard motor, very little wake. Never had a problem using it here with the spanish qualification mind you and had to show all papers for that.......its about 14 foot so no need for a berth as we simply towed it and launched it.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:40 pm

I don't think it is so much emissions as other environmental factors such as having built in sewage holding tanks etc. Also safety requirements can prove costly - a decent liferaft costs well over €1000.

Sid

ValL
Resident
Posts: 900
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:36 pm

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby ValL » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:53 am

If you buy a Spanish registered boat then you will need to have Spanish qualifications to drive it.

A full UK Yachtmaster certificate or the ICC certificate may get some exemption from the Spanish exams needed to get a licence.

If you are a resident you cannot own a foreign registered boat, it will have to be re-registered as a Spanish flagged boat and this is very expensive and complicated.

Some useful info at http://costablanca.angloinfo.com/inform ... ailing.asp

Sid[/quote]

That one is news to me Sid, my late husband was 'deemed resident' for some purposes this being one them and had a british registered boat kept here. He had the legalities investigated by his spanish lawyer ( also a boat owner ) and the only 'problem' was trying to explain she was 'deemed' VAT paid because of her age when they were checking all the boats in the marina. Once all the papers were shown he had no problems. He had all the relevant papers for her right back to the first owner and his yachtmaster paper.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:12 am

It's news to a lot of people but it is quite correct.

It has not been enforced much until recently but I personally know of two cases.

One boat was a 40" sailing boat, over 10 years old and the Guardia were checking all the boats in Caleta marina. They ended up with the boat being impounded until they paid over €10000.

They then had to get it brought up to Spanish standard and inspected before being allowed to use it. The cost of this would have been prohibitive so it is now up for sale, impounded, in Almerimar marina.

VAT is another issue. Boats brought into the EU from outside have to pay VAT when sold or imported permanently. Boats that originated in the EU and where VAT was paid and which are subsequently taken outside the EU may have VAT levied again when they re-enter the EU.

A good example of this problem was when you took an EU boat to Cyprus (before it was in the EU). and sold it. The new owner took it back to Greece and immediately got clobbered for VAT - very nasty!

When we were on a boat in Cyprus it was common for all boats sales to have paperwork showing the sale took place in Greece.

Sid

beachbabe
Resident
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby beachbabe » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:44 am

So. Thanks everyone.

I want to buy a Spanish registered boat. It will already be up to Spanish standards, and documentation. I will ensure that with the yard. I will also get appropriate insurance.

From replies so far, then, the only other requirement for me - as a non resident - is to get the Spanish skippering qualification appropriate for a 5 to 8 metre boat. No plumbed in heads (toilet) so no need for sewerage/holding tanks.

That doesn't sound too onerous.

Any other problems?

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:11 pm

Sounds OK to me.

Give us some feedback on how you sort out the qualifications and whether you get any credit for the RYA qualifications.

Getting back to your question about mooring fees, Caleta is one of the marinas run by the Junta and they have a list of fees at

http://www.eppa.es/GContenidos/index.ph ... article/34

Hope it goes well for you.

Sid

User avatar
RichardCoeurdeLion
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2538
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby RichardCoeurdeLion » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:59 pm

I've never owned a boat, but I've been told that a boat owner is only happy wth the vesel for two days.

The day they buy it,................ and the day they sell it.

Marina
Resident
Posts: 1278
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:19 pm
Location: Canillas De Aceituno

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby Marina » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:48 pm

We had a Spanish registered boat which we used with RYA qualiications. The police seemed quite happy with that when they stopped my sons one day to check the paperwork.

It took us five years to get to the top of the waiting list at Caleta and had sold the boat by then.

julian
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5976
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: marbella

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby julian » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:40 pm

I used to use a spanish registered boat, I took the RYA licence to capitania and they gave me a document to "validate" it for use here in spain, they said I could only use it that way for one year, the following year I went back and then gave me another one for one year !!!!!! :D

User avatar
pietree
Resident
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:33 am

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby pietree » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:43 pm

What surprises me reading this is, why the Uk RYA (or what other certificates you need) should not be accepted here in Spain, usually the British certificates and licences are accepted world wide and it´s Britain that won´t accept certificates from other countries.

My English CAA pilots licence is accepted worldwide the American FAA licence is far easier to gain than the Uk one and requires sitting more stringent exams in the Uk if you were to pass your flying tests there and want an English licence.

When I was hiring aircraft in America I applied for a temporary air mans certificate and was given, a full FAA American licence, simply by producing my Licence and log book at an International airport.
Thats it for now

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:28 pm

One reason is that the RYA is little more than a glorified members sailing club.

It authorised to issue some internationally recognised qualifications such as the ICC (International c
Certificate of Competance) but even that is little more than a sop to the charter companies!

The RYA Yachtmaster Offshore/Ocean is a bit better but even then it is only acceptable on UK registered vessels. I have a full commercial Yachmaster certificate that qualifies me on private and commercial vessels up to 200 tons but even that it not an internationally recognised certificate unless you are skippering a UK vessel..

Considering all the harmonisation of various matters that the EU have carried out, it as yet, seems not to have extended to the marine environment.

As for harmonisation of safety requirements for small private vessels - we are miles away from that!

Sid

julian
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 5976
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: marbella

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby julian » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:47 pm

true Cid....the int. certificate for operator of pleasurecraft I got from the RYA was for doing a one day course (not even an exam at the end of it) amazingly on producing it to capitania here they gave me an authorisation as a holder of PER, which is a several weeks course, a heavy exam, and a book longer than war and peace to study !!!!

beachbabe
Resident
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby beachbabe » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:51 pm

With all due respect my yachmaster qualification was not easy. Yes you can get micky mouse certificates anywhere.

Anyway I have checked and I will probably be OK with 'convalidacion' of my quals by the Capiatania. Yes, I was told 5 years to get a berth at Caleta - that's why i intend buying a boat that already has a berth. As I understand it I just continue to pay the annual fees. (But i've no doubt it will be more complicated than that.)

Judging by the loonies I see swanning around I can't believe many are qualified.

And as for letting lager crazed louts out on jetskis, that's even worse IMO.

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 14815
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Buying and berthing a boat

Postby El Cid » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:51 pm

No one said that a Yachtmaster was easy - it certainly isn't - it's just that it's a pity that it isn't internationally recognised without faffing around trying to get an exemption from the Spanish exams.

At least a UK driving licence can be used in Spain to drive a Spanish car.

When you mention the Spanish loonies, at least they are obliged by law to take an exam - in the UK there are absolutely no requirements to be qualified in any way - and for a country that is paranoid about health and safety that is plain crazy!

Sid


Return to “Living in Andalucia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests